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Post by kj on Jan 13, 2021 20:17:49 GMT
What I wonder is if whether Trump was hoping the violence at the Capitol would get far worse, he would be "forced" to call in the military, and suspend the transition for the sake of the "national interest".
The delay in issuing any request to ask his followers to restrain themselves may suggest this.
Some American acquaintances whose opinions I respect don't rule out this possibility.
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Post by cato on Jan 13, 2021 20:28:32 GMT
What I wonder is if whether Trump was hoping the violence at the Capitol would get far worse, he would be "forced" to call in the military, and suspend the transition for the sake of the "national interest". The delay in issuing any request to ask his followers to restrain themselves may suggest this. Some American acquaintances whose opinions I respect don't rule out this possibility. Future historians with access to behind the scenes information we don't have will have a fuller picture but based on what we know already Trump doesn't appear to have attempted to use the military to remain in power. Trump is quite fond of generals and the US military but thankfully he seems to have regarded involving them in his protest as being off limits. If he was really as mad/bad as some Democrats allege why hasn't he tried to use the vast force under his command? |
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Post by Stephen on Jan 13, 2021 21:53:41 GMT
What I wonder is if whether Trump was hoping the violence at the Capitol would get far worse, he would be "forced" to call in the military, and suspend the transition for the sake of the "national interest". The delay in issuing any request to ask his followers to restrain themselves may suggest this. Some American acquaintances whose opinions I respect don't rule out this possibility. Less mainstream media and Hollywood movies for you. I am still flabbergasted what people think Trump was trying to do. Next week we will have President Bidden or Harris in office and The media cycle will move on to the jailing of Orange man bad and how Covid was cured by the democrats. |
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Post by rogerbuck on Jan 14, 2021 3:23:27 GMT
What I wonder is if whether Trump was hoping the violence at the Capitol would get far worse, he would be "forced" to call in the military, and suspend the transition for the sake of the "national interest". The delay in issuing any request to ask his followers to restrain themselves may suggest this. Some American acquaintances whose opinions I respect don't rule out this possibility. Less mainstream media and Hollywood movies for you. I am still flabbergasted what people think Trump was trying to do. Next week we will have President Bidden or Harris in office and The media cycle will move on to the jailing of Orange man bad and how Covid was cured by the democrats. After four, five years of Trump now, I'm slightly embarrassed to say I still haven't got a great handle on his real agendas (beyond the obvious one of ego, that is). While I hardly trust the mainstream, I remain unconvinced by the opposite narrative. Not easy. Personally, I have to struggle to understand. |
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Post by hilary on Jan 14, 2021 8:05:52 GMT
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Post by cato on Jan 14, 2021 8:39:58 GMT
I see a video of Tucker Carson posted here on the 7th of January by Stephen is now "age restricted and only available on youtube".
I get that there may be copyright issues but age restricting?
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Post by kj on Jan 14, 2021 10:57:43 GMT
What I wonder is if whether Trump was hoping the violence at the Capitol would get far worse, he would be "forced" to call in the military, and suspend the transition for the sake of the "national interest". The delay in issuing any request to ask his followers to restrain themselves may suggest this. Some American acquaintances whose opinions I respect don't rule out this possibility. Less mainstream media and Hollywood movies for you. I am still flabbergasted what people think Trump was trying to do. Next week we will have President Bidden or Harris in office and The media cycle will move on to the jailing of Orange man bad and how Covid was cured by the democrats. I make no apologies for floating the idea. As I said, quite a few American acquaintances who are sober-minded and support Trump believe it to have been a possibility. As we can see on this thread, it seems some people have reached a point where Trump cannot even be suspected of anything malicious whatsoever. I say that as a Trump supporter and someone who would have voted for him were I an American. I loathe the Global Liberal establishment as much as anyone. However, while Trump may be a figurehead and rallying point for opposition to that establishment, let's not deceive ourselves as to his towering egotism, narcissism and recklessness either. There are plenty of inside accounts over the years even from sympathetic sources to confirm those traits exist in abundance. On a more general level, investing all one's hopes in one particular figure is generally a bad idea, as history tends to confirm over and over. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 14, 2021 11:13:29 GMT
Less mainstream media and Hollywood movies for you. I am still flabbergasted what people think Trump was trying to do. Next week we will have President Bidden or Harris in office and The media cycle will move on to the jailing of Orange man bad and how Covid was cured by the democrats. I make no apologies for floating the idea. As I said, quite a few American acquaintances who are sober-minded and support Trump believe it to have been a possibility. As we can see on this thread, it seems some people have reached a point where Trump cannot even be suspected of anything malicious whatsoever. I say that as a Trump supporter and someone who would have voted for him were I an American. I loathe the Global Liberal establishment as much as anyone. However, while Trump may be a figurehead and rallying point for opposition to that establishment, let's not deceive ourselves as to his towering egotism, narcissism and recklessness either. There are plenty of inside accounts over the years even from sympathetic sources to confirm those traits exist in abundance. On a more general level, investing all one's hopes in one particular figure is generally a bad idea, as history tends to confirm over and over. I agree that Trump has a towering ego, and I agree it's silly to become the mirror image of the liberal establishment; if the mainstream media think Trump can do no right, we shouldn't react by believing he can do no wrong and every mistake is actually 4D chess. In fact I do think he was reckless at the Washington rally and should not have called on his supporters to go to the Capitol. Having said that, I don't imagine he would have done anything quite as desperate as declare a national emergency. His rhetoric tends to be histrionic, while his actual behaviour is way more pragmatic. Look at the North Korea stand-off, for instance. I think he would realize that resorting to the military would cause an upheaval unseen since the Civil War. I imagine he would have faced a mutiny in the military itself (although I've heard he's hugely popular in the military and among the police). |
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Post by kj on Jan 14, 2021 11:28:09 GMT
I am not saying he was planning a coup, merely that given that he enjoys rolling the dice and seeing what happens it may have been one option in his mind. Bear in mind that according to inside sources he was at one point ten minutes from pulling out of NATO, a move which would have been as equally seismic and re-aligned European and Russian politics.
Anyway, at the end of the day, love or loathe him, he's on the way out. The question is how do forces in America resistant to the levelling utopian ideology of the Dems respond? Will it be incoherent grousing or a coherent response under a new leader?
Time will tell.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 14, 2021 11:34:44 GMT
I am not saying he was planning a coup, merely that given that he enjoys rolling the dice and seeing what happens it may have been one option in his mind. Bear in mind that according to inside sources he was at one point ten minutes from pulling out of NATO, a move which would have been as equally seismic and re-aligned European and Russian politics. Anyway, at the end of the day, love or loathe him, he's on the way out. The question is how do forces in America resistant to the levelling utopian ideology of the Dems respond? Will it be incoherent grousing or a coherent response under a new leader? Time will tell. I think the fact that he came so close to winning again, and that he mobilised such a powerful social movement, will be an inhibiting factor in the Democrats' efforts towards social engineering. They realize the resistance will be fierce. |
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Post by rogerbuck on Jan 14, 2021 16:25:01 GMT
it seems some people have reached a point where Trump cannot even be suspected of anything malicious whatsoever. I say that as a Trump supporter and someone who would have voted for him were I an American. I loathe the Global Liberal establishment as much as anyone. However, while Trump may be a figurehead and rallying point for opposition to that establishment, let's not deceive ourselves as to his towering egotism, narcissism and recklessness either. There are plenty of inside accounts over the years even from sympathetic sources to confirm those traits exist in abundance. On a more general level, investing all one's hopes in one particular figure is generally a bad idea, as history tends to confirm over and over. Well said, kj. I am increasingly worried by the binary thinking that I see coming out of America particularly. ("If the mainstream media say A is bad, then A must be good." And vice-versa.) I hope I will not offend Americans reading this. I am an American who came to Europe and was glad to find what still seems to me far more nuance in European thinking generally. I grew up in an America where we literally had multiple choice tests and even "True-False" tests. (Eg. "Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1493" - True or False?) But the British education system I entered age 16, encouraged thinking, long essays - not multiple choice tests. That was back in 1980 - I know it's been terribly dumbed down since. For all I know England and Ireland now have binary T-F tests too. (I very much doubt France does, though.) This is a bit off-topic, but I think we need to struggle with the different narratives to really penetrate to what's going on here with Trump. I see you doing that kj. And I remain ever frustrated by the binary-ness of my American youth - also eg "If you're not a Capitalist, you must be ipso facto Socialist." |
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Post by Tomas on Jan 20, 2021 19:45:57 GMT
Don´t want to offend, or illogically be labelled Trump-supporter because of staying on around plain criticism in regard to the election mess. Concerns were absolutely first and foremost about the voting and legal system around the process, not a Republican loss or gain or about president Trump personally. It´s simply impossible for us to know anything of the crucials by stark validity. Negative facts causing doubts on the outcome (if there are such) may of course not be hidden forever but will hardly be scrutinised in near future either. Case as closed it could ever be. Last link here is an example of the odd "extreme right-wing die hard" type of expression in the margins that is now sifting out of the drama, and tainted by "bad manners" goes off, seen by many with a sigh of relief, far away to somewhere in the US political shadowlands (the article hints at the "proofs" but all about those numbers are naturally not readily understood or possible to appraise for laymen, so therefore destined right for the law courts): www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/yes-president-trump-won All the televised scenes from Washington last days and weeks are only mediawise, in line with the outcome from November. Too embarassing to admit his good decisions at this moment when the whole agenda is to put in a nice frame to end the entire worldwide campaign against his impetus. Predictably unlikely that mr Trump will ever be back on that national scene again. The limited 5 year (2016-2020) surprise saga is over, and the difference he actually made will soon be gone with him. For better or worse time will soon tell. The other rulers coming in taking charge are soon going strong in terms of power. Nothing new in the annals of politics in the longer run - provided the current horror scenarios are no other than various alert people crying wolf well ahead of them really being out there on the prowl. Mixed impression could be the aftermath on this in many respects unlikely presidency. The personal style was dismissive, and dismissed... Something was interesting. Character faults were out in the open. Still he took several reasonable conservative decisions that was on the Republican party wish list and not at all confusing by that. The fuss is more about his person than his work for the party interest. It could have been less independent. But different opinions are nothing but normal, even if the man giving rise to this particular controversy setting is not entirely normalised!? |
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Post by Séamus on Jan 21, 2021 1:04:55 GMT
Were it were possible, it would be an interesting weathervane if one could fathom whether Biden's nominee, Dr Levine, was chosen for merit or diversity ideology. There'd hardly be a complete consensus about whether transgenderism is healthy.
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Post by cato on Jan 21, 2021 1:08:31 GMT
Were it were possible, it would be an interesting weathervane if one could fathom whether Biden's nominee, Dr Levine, was chosen for merit or diversity ideology. There'd hardly be a complete consensus about whether transgenderism is healthy. I wonder will improper use of pronouns be dealt with by legal sanctions? |
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Post by Stephen on Jan 21, 2021 7:31:56 GMT
Were it were possible, it would be an interesting weathervane if one could fathom whether Biden's nominee, Dr Levine, was chosen for merit or diversity ideology. There'd hardly be a complete consensus about whether transgenderism is healthy. He was clearly chosen as a political move, rather than on merit. A person with Gender dysphoria should not be in office for the common good and there delicate mental health. Unfortunately they have a very high suicide rate. |
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