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Post by cato on Sept 26, 2020 16:05:08 GMT
Back to David Quinn. (who seems at times to be the sole catholic spokesman nowadays) He has pointed out this weekend Dublin and Donegal are the only places in Europe that will not have any religious services this Sunday.
Neither bishop has made any public protest or has attempted to argue with the guidelines. The catholic hierarchy seem to accept any thing the HSE are advocating without a squeak. This quietism caused in large part by their disastrous handling of 20 years of scandals will not reflect well on them when the post Covid reckoning begins.
The bishops do hire a professional and pay him handsomely to be their press spokesman. I wonder how many people have ever heard of him? He writes the odd letter to the papers now and again.
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Post by cato on Oct 4, 2020 15:04:02 GMT
Dublin and Donegal are currently the only two places in Europe where public worship is prohibited . Mass from RTE today was from Letterkenny and the Jesuit bishop of Raphoe Alan Mc Guckian based his homily around the new papal encyclical Tutti Fratelli released today.
Despite the title of brotherhood he took a few swipes at populist forces who don't get the EU programme . We are all brothers it seems except for nasty Brexiteers and Nationalists alarmed at globalist corporations. I only heard the end of his homily so perhaps I am being a bit hasty. I haven't read the papal document either. More on that at a later date.
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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2020 15:04:11 GMT
At the moment all of the Irish Republic is under lockdown which prohibits public worship for all religions. Northern Ireland ironically allows the mass to be celebrated in public.
At the papal mass in the Phoenix park celebrated by pope Francis a penal cross was displayed on the altar. Sadly our clergy (And laity by and large) have displayed little of the fortitude of the penal era. It has been left to businessman Declan Ganley , a figure dispised by catholic social justice types, to challenge this ruling in court. This law is unjust and should be challenged by direct action but we are too timid and respectable to do that. We are people without chests.
No one predicted a virus would help decimate the Irish church a second time this century but we haven't lifted a finger or done anything practical to stand up for our faith. Most of us couldn't care less it seems too.
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Post by assisi on Nov 17, 2020 15:55:22 GMT
At the moment all of the Irish Republic is under lockdown which prohibits public worship for all religions. Northern Ireland ironically allows the mass to be celebrated in public. At the papal mass in the Phoenix park celebrated by pope Francis a penal cross was displayed on the altar. Sadly our clergy (And laity by and large) have displayed little of the fortitude of the penal era. It has been left to businessman Declan Ganley , a figure dispised by catholic social justice types, to challenge this ruling in court. This law is unjust and should be challenged by direct action but we are too timid and respectable to do that. We are people without chests. No one predicted a virus would help decimate the Irish church a second time this century but we haven't lifted a finger or done anything practical to stand up for our faith. Most of us couldn't care less it seems too. I know it's not the Christian thing to do, but.......if someone like Diarmuid Martin or Eamon Martin had gone into the Dail the days after the abortion referendum, grabbed Varadkar by the lapels, pinned him against the wall and whispered a few well chosen angry word in his ear, I would have been delighted. Even if either of the clerics had to do some jail time or community work, it would have been all worth it and would have shown some passion and, apart from the liberal media, would have raised their stock 100%.
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Post by cato on Nov 17, 2020 19:22:39 GMT
Clergy have gone to jail for scandalous things in our recent history and maybe when good clergy go to jail for the faith we will see things turn around slowly.
Laity too may soon have a choice to suffer publically for their faith. And we can't blame external oppressors for this climate of persecution.
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Post by hilary on Nov 20, 2020 21:15:36 GMT
Fr Hughes from Co. Cavan, who is saying Mass in his church with a congregation, was on with Claire Byrne on rte 1 this morning. Hopefully he can continue and maybe others will follow his lead.
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Post by hilary on Nov 21, 2020 13:47:28 GMT
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Post by cato on Dec 22, 2020 21:35:12 GMT
Our third lockdown will begin on St Stephens day this year. No bishop has to date objected. Declan Ganley may be back in court again doing the job of the hierarchy.
I have been told that some clergy are in receipt of the PUP payments given to all who have lost their jobs this year. I don't want to see anyone in financial hardship but directly getting state cash might explain the lack of any criticism of the states handling of this crisis from the bulk of clergy.
Naturally the media will not cover this story.
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Post by hilary on Dec 23, 2020 12:04:56 GMT
The National Covid-19 Vaccination Plan at 10.4 "Key elements - Trusted sources and peer-to-peer support" has a role for priests:
"It is recognised that uptake will be influenced by a wide range of influencers, depending on demographics. The role of community leaders, religious leaders and other influencers, will be important in conveying the message and will part of the plan."
So it seems that the separation of Church and State is not so important any more.
I don't hear much talk in the mainstream media of overall excess mortality. That would be useful information.
In my local church, "committees have been formed". I didn't volunteer, being a lockdown sceptic, but now I think that there could be a bias in favour of lockdown measures on those committees. If I was on such a committee I would be asking whether it is right to have bottles of hand sanitiser on the altar. I wouldn't be qualified to say it's not right but just that it doesn't look right. I suppose there is an argument that God will understand and that we have to be patient and loving towards our neighbour, but I'm not sure.
It crossed my mind that some priests might (God forgive me) actually enjoy watching the laity having to obey rules. Maybe there is also solidarity there (between the priests and the committees) that wasn't there before (in recent times anyway).
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Post by hilary on Dec 23, 2020 12:13:36 GMT
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Post by cato on Dec 23, 2020 20:31:49 GMT
The National Covid-19 Vaccination Plan at 10.4 "Key elements - Trusted sources and peer-to-peer support" has a role for priests: "It is recognised that uptake will be influenced by a wide range of influencers, depending on demographics. The role of community leaders, religious leaders and other influencers, will be important in conveying the message and will part of the plan." So it seems that the separation of Church and State is not so important any more. Lest we forget the separation of church and state, at least in America , was designed to maintain the independence of the church and her ability to preach and teach the Gospel with integrity and freedom. The Irish church is in many ways now a spiritual limb of the state in receipt of and increasingly dependent on, large amounts of state cash (HSE, Dept. of Education and Trocaire/Dept. of Foreign Affairs. ) This cash coming from a secularising government of course comes with heavy terms and conditions. It's useful to bear this in mind next time when you wonder "Why doesn't the church speak out"? The piper calls the tune. Always.
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Post by Séamus on Dec 25, 2020 8:48:05 GMT
Our third lockdown will begin on St Stephens day this year. No bishop has to date objected. Declan Ganley may be back in court again doing the job of the hierarchy. I have been told that some clergy are in receipt of the PUP payments given to all who have lost their jobs this year. I don't want to see anyone in financial hardship but directly getting state cash might explain the lack of any criticism of the states handling of this crisis from the bulk of clergy. Naturally the media will not cover this story. I know at least one person happy about new restrictions for residents of Sydney- his future in-laws can't attend his Brisbane wedding. Perhaps the Irish bishops are just glad to get Christmas in? Time for a different context can be given to the lines of Wren-Boy poem (Brendan Kennelly) "The little eagle-conquering Wren has died.... He knows dominion now And leaves behind The heavy spade,the ponderous plough For glory in the mind And blood,a man whose pride In stick and drum commemorates The bird that died"
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Post by Stephen on Dec 27, 2020 22:46:36 GMT
What do people think of the suggestion that the new Mass/post councillor Church has hammered its last death nail with the acceptance of covid agenda. The traditional orders seem to be going from strength to strength during these times with Mass attendance doubling and tripling in churches across the world.
Obviously the Globalist still will have a place at the table for useful idiots in the laity and hierarchy.
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Post by hilary on Dec 28, 2020 22:16:08 GMT
What do people think of the suggestion that the new Mass/post councillor Church has hammered its last death nail with the acceptance of covid agenda. The traditional orders seem to be going from strength to strength during these times with Mass attendance doubling and tripling in churches across the world. Obviously the Globalist still will have a place at the table for useful idiots in the laity and hierarchy. I'm interested in this Stephen. I'm sure there are quite a few priests and mass-goers who aren't happy with the way things are at the moment and they are having to be very diplomatic and tread carefully. I wonder if priests get heard in dioceses. I suppose many would be aiming for unity and co-operation and obedience to the hierarchy and Vatican and haven't really had to speak up until now. Hopefully we'll hear a few more soon!
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Post by Stephen on Dec 29, 2020 8:16:44 GMT
What do people think of the suggestion that the new Mass/post councillor Church has hammered its last death nail with the acceptance of covid agenda. The traditional orders seem to be going from strength to strength during these times with Mass attendance doubling and tripling in churches across the world. Obviously the Globalist still will have a place at the table for useful idiots in the laity and hierarchy. I'm interested in this Stephen. I'm sure there are quite a few priests and mass-goers who aren't happy with the way things are at the moment and they are having to be very diplomatic and tread carefully. I wonder if priests get heard in dioceses. I suppose many would be aiming for unity and co-operation and obedience to the hierarchy and Vatican and haven't really had to speak up until now. Hopefully we'll hear a few more soon! There is a Definitively a minority of People and Priests that have dug in for the winter (this probably isn't the best saying as these people are continuously moving the boundaries and giving ground.) What I have heard from a large amount of new people coming to the tradition is they have patiently being going to New Mass and putting up with the post councillor spirit but Covid broke the camel's back. There are a variety of reasons such as communion on the tongue being banned, Mass being cancelled, tickets for Mass, Facemasks, Sacramentally abandoned and list goes on. Time will only tell, what Covids affect will be on the Church.
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