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Post by cato on Aug 16, 2021 12:22:31 GMT
Yesterday's collapse of the Afghan government and the imminent triumph of the vile Taliban will rank as one of the lowest moments in the collapse of American hegemony.
Its hard to speak with proper perspective but America is now much worse off than it was prior to the September 11 attacks. It has been horse whipped , humiliated and many of its vulnerable allies must be anxious about the future. The Taliban have regained their base and have the well stocked arsenal of the previous US backed government. Plus they have 20 years of resentment to avenge. Billions of dollars and thousands of lives have been thrown away in vain. The world is more unstable and dangerous and violence is more likely.
Trump agreed this short sighted treacherous and cowardly policy negotiating a withdrawal time scale in good faith with barbarians! Biden could have binned this deal as he has binned much of Trump's legacy. Biden rantings and petulant outpourings have been pathetic to watch. He will bear much responsibility for the savagery that will be inflicted on those who trusted the promises of the west.
A vast refugee crisis is likely too which Europeans will end up having to pay for. I don't believe the original decisions to occupy Afghanistan was wise but the decision to depart in this manner is disastrous. A European effort to prevent the fall of the previous regime would have been the lesser evil of all the evils on offer.
God help those who will not escape the approaching darkness.
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Post by cato on Aug 16, 2021 12:39:41 GMT
On BBC 4 news today the experts are discussing liberal elements in the Taliban potentially reacting to diversity among young Afghans. Utter fantasy.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Aug 16, 2021 14:44:07 GMT
I'm not sure it's a complete failure for the USA in Afghanistan, at least the deep state. The plan of taking Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq into the USA influence didn't but you need to break a few eggs to make a omelet. At least they have a nice new pipeline.
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Post by Séamus on Aug 17, 2021 12:36:00 GMT
Yesterday's collapse of the Afghan government and the imminent triumph of the vile Taliban will rank as one of the lowest moments in the collapse of American hegemony. Its hard to speak with proper perspective but America is now much worse off than it was prior to the September 11 attacks. It has been horse whipped , humiliated and many of its vulnerable allies must be anxious about the future. The Taliban have regained their base and have the well stocked arsenal of the previous US backed government. Plus they have 20 years of resentment to avenge. Billions of dollars and thousands of lives have been thrown away in vain. The world is more unstable and dangerous and violence is more likely. Trump agreed this short sighted treacherous and cowardly policy negotiating a withdrawal time scale in good faith with barbarians! Biden could have binned this deal as he has binned much of Trump's legacy. Biden rantings and petulant outpourings have been pathetic to watch. He will bear much responsibility for the savagery that will be inflicted on those who trusted the promises of the west. A vast refugee crisis is likely too which Europeans will end up having to pay for. I don't believe the original decisions to occupy Afghanistan was wise but the decision to depart in this manner is disastrous. A European effort to prevent the fall of the previous regime would have been the lesser evil of all the evils on offer. God help those who will not escape the approaching darkness. "On arriving at Fremantle Port with nothing but a few small crates with all their worldly goods, they received an orange from a kind Salvation Army volunteer. Every time,over the next 70 years, whenever Rosika or her sister would see the Salvos rattling tins they would donate money, saying to the bemused collector 'That's for the orange'- Goodness knows how many times they paid for that orange" An obituary for a Danube Swabian (apparently,an Austrian minority disliked by the Nazis), today put the plight of refugees under the microscope for me,just as images of Afghans storming Kabul airport came through. Also coincidental that reports of Haitians queuing up for avocados and bananas were printed on the same day. Despite the murder of a French priest by a refugee last week,due to him doing exactly what his Supreme Pontiff wanted- opening up religious houses to the displaced- I think we can see this a bit differently from the usual islamic/refugee polemic, with western countries involved previously in the conflict largely acting conscientiously. Perhaps they could have started a bit earlier, particularly with any locals on American or European payrolls, notwithstanding promises of sort that floggings and stonings won't resume. Not that opening up is without future risk involved- how often have people fled to the West from extremism,only to see children or grandchildren embrace the same, perhaps in rejection of the secular environment around them. Mention was made today that leftist feminist prime Minister Julia Gillard was the first to announce the withdrawal of Australian troops in 2012, Obama said something similar in 2014, Trump more recently,so there's no noticeable political spectrum in organising this. The full implications will probably only be judged historically. One thing we haven't seen in the last twenty years is the western public defending the Taliban in a similar way to the Joan Baezs and Jane Fondas who vocally sided with Vietnamese communism. Still inevitable that comparisons would be made with Saigon. Doesn't augur well. Unfortunately Vietnam is one of the few countries that still professes the system that Americans and others died to fight. One aspect that may be examined some time is the emptiness of ideology in Afghanistan's 2001 liberators. Do the male-dominating Taliban get (which,despite their primative-ness,I suspect they do) trickles of information about us formerly-Christian nations and our 62 different genders? Does it make them feel all the stronger against us? I know several people who are connected with several people who have served with the Australian Army in Afghanistan,all of them after the main fighting had finished,yet all traumatized or effected in some way,just through being there. Naturally some are, and will, hit out at the withdrawal. But it could be questioned objectively whether remaining indefinitely to chaperone the Afghan army for a third decade would make their presence feel any more relevant or complete. As important as the environment is, perhaps His Holiness can turn his attention from Glasgow-climate-summit-masses for a moment to dedicate a day of intercession for this....
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Post by cato on Aug 17, 2021 22:26:52 GMT
One awkward difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan is that the Taliban are not simple Afghan nationalists who will wave the West goodbye once the last plane leaves Kabul.
They have defeated the infidels in an historical victory worthy of comparison with the defeat of the Medieval Crusades. They want total victory. I doubt they will ever achieve a global caliphate but they won't stop fighting. Biden has just switched battlefields to one of their choosing. All in time for the 20th anniversary of 9/11.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Aug 18, 2021 15:09:54 GMT
One awkward difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan is that the Taliban are not simple Afghan nationalists who will wave the West goodbye once the last plane leaves Kabul. They have defeated the infidels in an historical victory worthy of comparison with the defeat of the Medieval Crusades. They want total victory. I doubt they will ever achieve a global caliphate but they won't stop fighting. Biden has just switched battlefields to one of their choosing. All in time for the 20th anniversary of 9/11. President Reagan meeting with Afghan Mujahideen in the White House to discuss Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I wonder will we get more or less war because of this 2021 Afghanistan action? If yes, who is going to gain?
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Post by cato on Aug 18, 2021 20:39:37 GMT
One awkward difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan is that the Taliban are not simple Afghan nationalists who will wave the West goodbye once the last plane leaves Kabul. They have defeated the infidels in an historical victory worthy of comparison with the defeat of the Medieval Crusades. They want total victory. I doubt they will ever achieve a global caliphate but they won't stop fighting. Biden has just switched battlefields to one of their choosing. All in time for the 20th anniversary of 9/11. President Reagan meeting with Afghan Mujahideen in the White House to discuss Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I wonder will we get more or less war because of this 2021 Afghanistan action? If yes, who is going to gain? A crystal ball would be a great thing in politics. Perhaps it would have been better not to oppose the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and leave the Soviet Empire intact? Reagan made some silly foreign policy decisions like secretly arming the Iranian regime fighting Saddam to get US hostages returned and spending the profits on right wing revolutionaries in Nicaragua. That took economic liberalism to new levels. To his credit he was reluctant to engage in empire building but he did invade the Commonwealth territory of Grenada annoying Queen Elizabeth and Mrs Thatcher.
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Post by cato on Aug 18, 2021 20:48:55 GMT
I wonder will we get more or less war because of this 2021 Afghanistan action? If yes, who is going to gain?[/quote]
Why would they stop now after one of the greatest military victories ever? Warriors inspired by a militant version of a religion traditionally spread by the scimitar.
An attack on Taiwan by China is more likely given the weak stubborn character of Biden and China's expressed desire to unite if necessary by military means.A resumption of terror attacks in the West is also a distinct possibility too.
The Great globalist Biden has endangered the world more than his predecessor. Or maybe the Taliban will embrace diversity and marriage equality? 🤔
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Post by Séamus on Aug 19, 2021 2:35:05 GMT
On BBC 4 news today the experts are discussing liberal elements in the Taliban potentially reacting to diversity among young Afghans. Utter fantasy. They may or may not be intending a lighter version of Taliban rule,(after all many of the old protagonists have now been killed)but it would be rather amazing if an Animal Farm-style progressive constriction doesn't occur in the situation. Despite this imagery involving an animal that doesn't grace halal tables.
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Post by cato on Aug 19, 2021 8:44:28 GMT
On BBC 4 news today the experts are discussing liberal elements in the Taliban potentially reacting to diversity among young Afghans. Utter fantasy. They may or may not be intending a lighter version of Taliban rule,(after all many of the old protagonists have now been killed)but it would be rather amazing if an Animal Farm-style progressive constriction doesn't occur in the situation. Despite this imagery involving an animal that doesn't grace halal tables. Its a bit of a liberal dream fantasising about how Islamic societies are becoming more like us which flies in the face of the evidence in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran. Historically Sharia law is expanding globally. It is western countries that are adapting to Islamic values by censoring criticism of Islamic excesses and down playing indigenous Moslem crime incidents.Any native violent equivalent is loudly denounced as toxic masculinity, racist , misogynistic etc.
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Post by cato on Aug 19, 2021 8:47:39 GMT
Ironically as moslems integrate more they will probably become the biggest socially conservative bloc in Ireland.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Aug 20, 2021 10:49:48 GMT
Ironically as moslems integrate more they will probably become the biggest socially conservative bloc in Ireland. "integrate" might be a push, they will never be Irish. your comment may be true but the conservatism of a a Muhammadan is very different to a Irish Trad.
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Post by cato on Aug 20, 2021 15:25:07 GMT
Ironically as moslems integrate more they will probably become the biggest socially conservative bloc in Ireland. "integrate" might be a push, they will never be Irish. your comment may be true but the conservatism of a a Muhammadan is very different to a Irish Trad. How about the descendants of 17th Scottish Calvinists in border counties? To the best of my knowledge they produced the highest No vote to the abortion referendum when a significant amount practicing "catholics" disgracefully helped swing the vote to a Yes. How can someone who has come here legally and wants to work and is a citizen not become Irish? Almost every country on earth including Ireland has a naturalisation process. That's not to say it can't be abused ( and is) but to say a moslem can't become Irish is simply untrue.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Aug 20, 2021 20:59:05 GMT
"integrate" might be a push, they will never be Irish. your comment may be true but the conservatism of a a Muhammadan is very different to a Irish Trad. How about the descendants of 17th Scottish Calvinists in border counties? To the best of my knowledge they produced the highest No vote to the abortion referendum when a significant amount practicing "catholics" disgracefully helped swing the vote to a Yes. How can someone who has come here legally and wants to work and is a citizen not become Irish? Almost every country on earth including Ireland has a naturalisation process. That's not to say it can't be abused ( and is) but to say a moslem can't become Irish is simply untrue. This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land. Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 20, 2021 23:14:04 GMT
How about the descendants of 17th Scottish Calvinists in border counties? To the best of my knowledge they produced the highest No vote to the abortion referendum when a significant amount practicing "catholics" disgracefully helped swing the vote to a Yes. How can someone who has come here legally and wants to work and is a citizen not become Irish? Almost every country on earth including Ireland has a naturalisation process. That's not to say it can't be abused ( and is) but to say a moslem can't become Irish is simply untrue. This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land. Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church. As far as the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church goes, Nostra Aetate is clear: “The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting. “Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.” “Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to ‘conduct themselves well among the Gentiles' and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45" As for Irishness, both the Proclamation and the Constitution guarantee religious freedom. None of this is to say we should be blind to the darker aspects of Islam, or of some strains of Islam.
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