|
Post by cato on Aug 21, 2021 11:51:42 GMT
]This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land.
Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church. [/quote]
Sean it would be nice if you could engage with what I have said. Are people who have profoundly pro family pro conservative views and who are non catholic Christians Irish?
Were Patrick Pearse, James Connolly and Erskine Childers(executed by the Free State army) Irish?
What is your source for saying Irish people must have Irish blood or a connection with the land?
Moslems are more likely to practice their religion than Christians, have bigger families, hold to their religious beliefs in public and to protest when their beliefs are being insulted. By and large they do not accommodate themselves to the madness of post modern ideologies. If you find this laughable then perhaps you could elaborate?
I have posted more than most here and have criticised militant Islam on numerous occasions over several years but there is much Christians could learn from them too.
|
|
|
Post by assisi on Aug 21, 2021 19:39:32 GMT
This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land. Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church. As far as the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church goes, Nostra Aetate is clear: “The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting. “Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.” “Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to ‘conduct themselves well among the Gentiles' and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45" As for Irishness, both the Proclamation and the Constitution guarantee religious freedom. None of this is to say we should be blind to the darker aspects of Islam, or of some strains of Islam. The above strikes me as a pleading for peace and mutual understanding between peoples and nations, and I would be for that. No discrimination or harassment, I can agree with that. But I don't think it addresses the current artificially engineered situation whereby a globalist EU and other elites actively promote the movement of foreign peoples to western European countries in order to use them as one of several means to establish a secular globalist liberal anti-human mess. Their end game includes the eradication of Christianity, the diminishing of the nuclear family and the nation state. As Catholics we are called upon not to cooperate where possible with this anti-Catholic and anti-human movement, which unfortunately portrays itself as virtuous through selective reporting, propagandising young people and control of the media. I am against the actions of bigger imperial powers that have taken place in the middle east and believe that their cultures should evolve, or not, more organically rather than be subject to regime changes, resource war or ideological war. No-one given legal citizenship in Ireland should be discriminated against, it's not their fault that they are being used as pawns. But a responsible government and society needs to look after its own citizens and maintain the stability of the country. Bringing in too many foreign nationals, while exporting our own nationals is madness. If there is to be any movement it would be better to bring in peoples that at least share a closer ethnicity to ourselves and a Christian ethos. We are a mix of Celts, pre-Celts, Vikings, Normans, and probably Britons from modern day UK, a European and Nordic background. Having small communities of Hindus, Moslems and Chinese for example would be fine, but there is probably a critical mass where the ratio of native Irish to new Irish should not be passed. If we are honest with ourselves someone arriving in Ireland from the middle east today would probably not speak English or Irish, would probably not be Christian or brought up Christian and would come from a completely different culture. It is plain silly to say that they are as Irish as 'Joe Gallagher' who runs a farm in Donegal that has been in his family for years. They might however be edging slightly closer to an Irish 16 year old if both are playing the same computer games, watching the same movies and idolising Ronaldo or Lionel Messi. It should also be added that militant Islam does export itself to new countries much more than militant hinduism and militant chinese. I suspect that I am in the minority since the idea of multiculturalism has been sold over the airwaves aggressively for the last 50 years or so. But, ultimately, I don't think it gives rise to a healthy and robust society. I think it ghettoises society and leads to the type of society that the liberal elites and multinationals want - dumbed down docile and drugged societies that are easily controlled and devoid of meaning and solidarity.
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 23, 2021 10:44:45 GMT
As far as the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church goes, Nostra Aetate is clear: “The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God’s plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting. “Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values.” “Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to ‘conduct themselves well among the Gentiles' and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45" As for Irishness, both the Proclamation and the Constitution guarantee religious freedom. None of this is to say we should be blind to the darker aspects of Islam, or of some strains of Islam. The above strikes me as a pleading for peace and mutual understanding between peoples and nations, and I would be for that. No discrimination or harassment, I can agree with that. But I don't think it addresses the current artificially engineered situation whereby a globalist EU and other elites actively promote the movement of foreign peoples to western European countries in order to use them as one of several means to establish a secular globalist liberal anti-human mess. Their end game includes the eradication of Christianity, the diminishing of the nuclear family and the nation state. As Catholics we are called upon not to cooperate where possible with this anti-Catholic and anti-human movement, which unfortunately portrays itself as virtuous through selective reporting, propagandising young people and control of the media. I am against the actions of bigger imperial powers that have taken place in the middle east and believe that their cultures should evolve, or not, more organically rather than be subject to regime changes, resource war or ideological war. No-one given legal citizenship in Ireland should be discriminated against, it's not their fault that they are being used as pawns. But a responsible government and society needs to look after its own citizens and maintain the stability of the country. Bringing in too many foreign nationals, while exporting our own nationals is madness. If there is to be any movement it would be better to bring in peoples that at least share a closer ethnicity to ourselves and a Christian ethos. We are a mix of Celts, pre-Celts, Vikings, Normans, and probably Britons from modern day UK, a European and Nordic background. Having small communities of Hindus, Moslems and Chinese for example would be fine, but there is probably a critical mass where the ratio of native Irish to new Irish should not be passed. If we are honest with ourselves someone arriving in Ireland from the middle east today would probably not speak English or Irish, would probably not be Christian or brought up Christian and would come from a completely different culture. It is plain silly to say that they are as Irish as 'Joe Gallagher' who runs a farm in Donegal that has been in his family for years. They might however be edging slightly closer to an Irish 16 year old if both are playing the same computer games, watching the same movies and idolising Ronaldo or Lionel Messi. It should also be added that militant Islam does export itself to new countries much more than militant hinduism and militant chinese. I suspect that I am in the minority since the idea of multiculturalism has been sold over the airwaves aggressively for the last 50 years or so. But, ultimately, I don't think it gives rise to a healthy and robust society. I think it ghettoises society and leads to the type of society that the liberal elites and multinationals want - dumbed down docile and drugged societies that are easily controlled and devoid of meaning and solidarity. I'm not very keen on multiculturalism, either. But, effectively, it seems the Irish people stopped caring about reviving or cherishing their traditional culture by the nineteen-fifties at least (aside from occasional counter-currents such as the nineteen-sixties "ballad boom" or the current growth in gaelscoileanna). I do tend to agree with you that there is an agenda bent on abolishing the nation-state and national traditions, and I'm against that, but it's hard to really mobilise or resist it when the vast majority of the Irish people don't seem to care about preserving their cultural distinctiveness. If we actually did that, I don't think immigration would be as much of an issue-- probably a lot of the immigrants would be happy to join in a cultural revival. Speaking as a Catholic, surely we have to listen to the recent Popes, as well, who seem to have put the emphasis entirely upon welcoming the stranger. I admit that, as an instinctive enthno-nationalist ("ethno" in the sense of culture rather than race), I don't like this, but it's been such a consistent and repeated teaching that it's hard to see it as optional. The Church always seems to put the person above "second-order" phenomena such as nations and cultures, or class, or ideology, etc. And it's true I would not like to say to the face of any individual immigrant: "I wish you weren't here, I wish you would go back to the country you came from". When you boil it down to individuals, people with faces and stories, it becomes harder to make the preservation of heritage the priority over human flourishing. Which is not to say I think the preservation of heritage isn't important-- I think about it constantly, in fact.
|
|
|
Post by Tomas on Aug 25, 2021 21:35:13 GMT
Tonight I was shown a picture of an elderly Taliban warrior chief seated next to the wife he had bought, a little 11 year old girl looking scared like hell looking up from his side. This "culture" would scare an average Westerner to death if they knew it. But... I´m afraid I would not be surprised at all if this change around Afghanisthan would prove to be "no more than" a cynic vehicle for a weakened Biden regime to try and take away focus from his and his accomplices failures in the US domestics. Only time will tell here as well as in Covidvaxmaskphobia, secular and vatican versions.
|
|
|
Post by cato on Aug 29, 2021 12:43:15 GMT
Latest article by Kevin Myers on his website is well worth reading. Depressing but largely spot on. The shell of western Civilisation (with all its flaws )is crumbling and the alternative will be much more brutal, unstable and uncertain.
|
|
|
Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Sept 1, 2021 21:11:33 GMT
]This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land. Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church Sean it would be nice if you could engage with what I have said. Are people who have profoundly pro family pro conservative views and who are non catholic Christians Irish? Were Patrick Pearse, James Connolly and Erskine Childers(executed by the Free State army) Irish? What is your source for saying Irish people must have Irish blood or a connection with the land? Moslems are more likely to practice their religion than Christians, have bigger families, hold to their religious beliefs in public and to protest when their beliefs are being insulted. By and large they do not accommodate themselves to the madness of post modern ideologies. If you find this laughable then perhaps you could elaborate? I have posted more than most here and have criticised militant Islam on numerous occasions over several years but there is much Christians could learn from them too. [/quote] ______________"Sean, it would be nice if you could engage with what I have said." I have horsebox"Are people who have profoundly pro family pro conservatnon-catholicd who are non catholic Christians Irish?" So are Protestants Irish? Ireland is a Nation/Family.
It depends on the person. Let's look at the people you mentionedPatrick Pearse: yes through his mother I thinkJames Connolly Yes he son of Irish parents.Erskine Childers Maybe through his Mother who was Anglo-Irish.Just because you are not of a nation does not mean you can not live and die for a nation or cause.
What is your source for saying Irish people must have Irish blood or a connection with the land? Why would I need a source to discuss what it means to be Irish?
"Moslems are more likely to practice their religion than Christians, have bigger families, hold to their religious beliefs in public and to protest when their beliefs are being insulted. By and large they do not accommodate themselves to the madness of post modern ideologies. If you find this laughable then perhaps you could elaborate?" I'm laughing at you because you are an intelligent person that can't see one of Christianity's biggest enemies for the last 1200 years and Islam has not. They worship a false religion and will not help the people of Ireland. Large families are commendable and we definitely should remember are own culture on large families and God commandment to multiple. It is also good that Catholics learn from some Muslims, That separation from Religion and society is idiotic. Islam is a boot crushing the human person and will never stop."I have posted more than most here and have criticised militant Islam on numerous occasions over several years but there is much Christians could learn from them too. " What we need to learn from Catholic civilisation and a renewed study of Catholic teaching before the man men took for the mental institution. I leave you with a few saintly quotes.
“The Mahometan paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.” St. Alfonsus Liguori
“Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad.” St. Peter Mavimenus
“Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians, and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned.” St. Aurelius,
“Even if all the things contained in his law were fables in philosophy and errors in theology, even for those who do not possess the light of reason, the very manners (Islam) teaches are from a school of vicious bestialities. (Muhammad) did not prove his new sect with any motive, having neither supernatural miracles nor natural reasons, but solely the force of arms, violence, fictions, lies, and carnal license. It remains an impious, blasphemous, vicious cult, an innovention of the devil, and the direct way into the fires of hell. It does not even merit the name of being called a religion.” St. Juan de RiberaBattle of Lepanto 7 October 1571
|
|
|
Post by cato on Sept 1, 2021 23:39:37 GMT
]This Liberal mindset is why the West has become so weak and degenerative. You can't become a part of a family or nation of Ireland without blood connection and being rooted in the land. Also your comparison of Christians to Muhammadan is laughable. I'm interested in a source for this aswell. Muhammadans are not our friends, they are enemies to Ireland and the Holy Catholic Church Sean it would be nice if you could engage with what I have said. Are people who have profoundly pro family pro conservative views and who are non catholic Christians Irish? Were Patrick Pearse, James Connolly and Erskine Childers(executed by the Free State army) Irish? What is your source for saying Irish people must have Irish blood or a connection with the land? Moslems are more likely to practice their religion than Christians, have bigger families, hold to their religious beliefs in public and to protest when their beliefs are being insulted. By and large they do not accommodate themselves to the madness of post modern ideologies. If you find this laughable then perhaps you could elaborate? I have posted more than most here and have criticised militant Islam on numerous occasions over several years but there is much Christians could learn from them too. ______________"Sean, it would be nice if you could engage with what I have said." I have horsebox"Are people who have profoundly pro family pro conservatnon-catholicd who are non catholic Christians Irish?" So are Protestants Irish? Ireland is a Nation/Family.
It depends on the person. Let's look at the people you mentionedPatrick Pearse: yes through his mother I thinkJames Connolly Yes he son of Irish parents.Erskine Childers Maybe through his Mother who was Anglo-Irish.Just because you are not of a nation does not mean you can not live and die for a nation or cause.
What is your source for saying Irish people must have Irish blood or a connection with the land? Why would I need a source to discuss what it means to be Irish?
"Moslems are more likely to practice their religion than Christians, have bigger families, hold to their religious beliefs in public and to protest when their beliefs are being insulted. By and large they do not accommodate themselves to the madness of post modern ideologies. If you find this laughable then perhaps you could elaborate?" I'm laughing at you because you are an intelligent person that can't see one of Christianity's biggest enemies for the last 1200 years and Islam has not. They worship a false religion and will not help the people of Ireland. Large families are commendable and we definitely should remember are own culture on large families and God commandment to multiple. It is also good that Catholics learn from some Muslims, That separation from Religion and society is idiotic. Islam is a boot crushing the human person and will never stop."I have posted more than most here and have criticised militant Islam on numerous occasions over several years but there is much Christians could learn from them too. " What we need to learn from Catholic civilisation and a renewed study of Catholic teaching before the man men took for the mental institution. I leave you with a few saintly quotes.
“The Mahometan paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.” St. Alfonsus Liguori
“Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad.” St. Peter Mavimenus
“Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians, and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned.” St. Aurelius,
“Even if all the things contained in his law were fables in philosophy and errors in theology, even for those who do not possess the light of reason, the very manners (Islam) teaches are from a school of vicious bestialities. (Muhammad) did not prove his new sect with any motive, having neither supernatural miracles nor natural reasons, but solely the force of arms, violence, fictions, lies, and carnal license. It remains an impious, blasphemous, vicious cult, an innovention of the devil, and the direct way into the fires of hell. It does not even merit the name of being called a religion.” St. Juan de RiberaBattle of Lepanto 7 October 1571 [/quote] What pray does "Horsebox" mean? I am happy to have the same attitude to Islam as St John Paul II had when he joined forces with Islamic governments to oppose UN efforts at imposing abortion and population control in the 1990s. I am well aware Islam is heretical. I am sympathetic to Hilaire Belloc's view that Islam is a decayed form of Arian Christianity. I also deplore militant violent Islam,Islamic persecution of Christians and the craven attitude western governments display to those who refuse to integrate and who despise us and our Christian heritage. Modern Christianity could learn a lot from Islam's refusal to conform to the liberal zeitgeist and its single minded devotion to the divine without compromise.
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 2, 2021 8:42:08 GMT
When quoting from the saints to make a particular point, we must (in my opinion) remember that there were always obedient to Church teachings. Nor were they infallible.
I think there's a practical side to this as well. There are well over a billion Muslims in the world. We have to share a planet with them and also there are Christian minorities in many majority Muslims countries- often oppressed Christians. What does an antagonistic attitude towards Islam achieve, other than to generate religious strife and expose those Christians to greater suffering? I'm not suggesting we should be naive about Islam, I think it's fair to say that it was spread at the point of the sword.
But I also know that, if I was born in a majority Muslim country, I would most likely be Muslim. I do think there are vast amounts of good Muslims in the world who are following their conscience and their own understanding of the truth in practicing Islam. The Church teaches it's wrong to go against your conscience, although of course that conscience must be informed.
There are very dark episodes in Christian history and very dark, almost inexplicable passages in the Bible. I think this should make us wary of using this or that passage from the Koran as a proof-text.
And, yes, the pandering to Islam on the left (i.e., the establishment) is hypocritical and ridiculous. Islam should be open to criticism, as should Christianity and Judaism and every other religion. But I think there's a danger of overreaction.
|
|
|
Post by Antaine on Sept 5, 2021 16:11:44 GMT
There's a difference between being Irish (race) and a citizen of Ireland, and the denial of such is simply a Left wing ploy to undermine the identity of White races. Nobody will tell the Indigenous/First Nation/Indian Americans that race is just a "social construct", and that it doesn't matter. They won't say it to Blacks in America either. They will say it to no one but pissed off White people who are tired of being treated like crap in their own countries. It's not racist to overwhelm White countries with foreigners they never asked for, but to take issue with it is. It's racist to ask why there are so many foreigners in a particular part of the country, but not racist to be a Black person who gets let into the country, given a free home, and then spits in the faces of Irish people, spouting slander about how inherently racist and "white privileged" the country is, and how there are too many White people in this field or that (therefore, diversity), or how so many White people in the White country they chose to go to makes them uncomfortable (therefore we need to bring in more people like them, even though race doesn't matter, just because why not?)
The fact that people don't have the guts to call something so blatant for what it is, is a sign of how Leftist indoctrination and conditioning has seeped into even Conservative/Right-Wing movements. The fact that people barely muster an eye-roll when we hear about the latest Middle Eastern rape gang, Black riot over some degenerate criminal getting killed, or some Asian politician or other important figure demonising Whites or talking about their fantasies of wanting to shoot White men (met with reward, rather than outrage); the fact that this is the case on one hand, yet White people wanting to preserve their demographics is met with nervous handwringing and knee-jerks (at best) on the other, is a sign of how utterly sick and mentally neutered Western society has become.
I'm sorry to derail the thread, but since this was a point that came up, it needs to be stated. For those who say race doesn't matter, it does. Not on a small-scale, personal level (this is where you judge a person on character as opposed to race); but on a large-scale, political one. Apparently everyone but White people understand this. I'll leave off with a lovely message from SNP Justice Minister Humza Yousaf, and his opinions on the travesty of too many Whites in Scotland, as an example of the racial hypocrisy that grips the West. We don't even have to imagine if it was in reverse:
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 5, 2021 18:16:46 GMT
There's a difference between being Irish (race) and a citizen of Ireland, and the denial of such is simply a Left wing ploy to undermine the identity of White races. Nobody will tell the Indigenous/First Nation/Indian Americans that race is just a "social construct", and that it doesn't matter. They won't say it to Blacks in America either. They will say it to no one but pissed off White people who are tired of being treated like crap in their own countries. It's not racist to overwhelm White countries with foreigners they never asked for, but to take issue with it is. It's racist to ask why there are so many foreigners in a particular part of the country, but not racist to be a Black person who gets let into the country, given a free home, and then spits in the faces of Irish people, spouting slander about how inherently racist and "white privileged" the country is, and how there are too many White people in this field or that (therefore, diversity), or how so many White people in the White country they chose to go to makes them uncomfortable (therefore we need to bring in more people like them, even though race doesn't matter, just because why not?) The fact that people don't have the guts to call something so blatant for what it is, is a sign of how Leftist indoctrination and conditioning has seeped into even Conservative/Right-Wing movements. The fact that people barely muster an eye-roll when we hear about the latest Middle Eastern rape gang, Black riot over some degenerate criminal getting killed, or some Asian politician or other important figure demonising Whites or talking about their fantasies of wanting to shoot White men (met with reward, rather than outrage); the fact that this is the case on one hand, yet White people wanting to preserve their demographics is met with nervous handwringing and knee-jerks (at best) on the other, is a sign of how utterly sick and mentally neutered Western society has become. I'm sorry to derail the thread, but since this was a point that came up, it needs to be stated. For those who say race doesn't matter, it does. Not on a small-scale, personal level (this is where you judge a person on character as opposed to race); but on a large-scale, political one. Apparently everyone but White people understand this. I'll leave off with a lovely message from SNP Justice Minister Humza Yousaf, and his opinions on the travesty of too many Whites in Scotland, as an example of the racial hypocrisy that grips the West. We don't even have to imagine if it was in reverse: I just don't really understand why anyone cares about skin colour, either on an individual level or en masse. Why does it matter? Why should the Irish be white? I'm honestly baffled by the preoccupation of both right and left on such a cosmetic matter. In my view the important thing is not demographics but culture. And in truth the Irish people abandoned their culture (with the exception of the GAA) long before the influx of immigrants. The presence of Afghanis is not an obstacle to speaking Gaelic. The left play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but why play their game? Surely it's better to rise above it.
|
|
|
Post by cato on Sept 5, 2021 19:34:34 GMT
[quote I just don't really understand why anyone cares about skin colour, either on an individual level or en masse. Why does it matter? Why should the Irish be white? I'm honestly baffled by the preoccupation of both right and left on such a cosmetic matter.
In my view the important thing is not demographics but culture. And in truth the Irish people abandoned their culture (with the exception of the GAA) long before the influx of immigrants. The presence of Afghanis is not an obstacle to speaking Gaelic.
The left play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but why play their game? Surely it's better to rise above it. [/quote]
Agree 100% . We have abandoned our culture just like we abandoned our religion. No one forced us.
We do need to insist that immigration is also openly discussed and becomes an acceptable topic to debate without being branded as racist. People illegally here should be deported.
|
|
|
Post by Assis-i on Sept 5, 2021 21:09:54 GMT
There's a difference between being Irish (race) and a citizen of Ireland, and the denial of such is simply a Left wing ploy to undermine the identity of White races. Nobody will tell the Indigenous/First Nation/Indian Americans that race is just a "social construct", and that it doesn't matter. They won't say it to Blacks in America either. They will say it to no one but pissed off White people who are tired of being treated like crap in their own countries. It's not racist to overwhelm White countries with foreigners they never asked for, but to take issue with it is. It's racist to ask why there are so many foreigners in a particular part of the country, but not racist to be a Black person who gets let into the country, given a free home, and then spits in the faces of Irish people, spouting slander about how inherently racist and "white privileged" the country is, and how there are too many White people in this field or that (therefore, diversity), or how so many White people in the White country they chose to go to makes them uncomfortable (therefore we need to bring in more people like them, even though race doesn't matter, just because why not?) The fact that people don't have the guts to call something so blatant for what it is, is a sign of how Leftist indoctrination and conditioning has seeped into even Conservative/Right-Wing movements. The fact that people barely muster an eye-roll when we hear about the latest Middle Eastern rape gang, Black riot over some degenerate criminal getting killed, or some Asian politician or other important figure demonising Whites or talking about their fantasies of wanting to shoot White men (met with reward, rather than outrage); the fact that this is the case on one hand, yet White people wanting to preserve their demographics is met with nervous handwringing and knee-jerks (at best) on the other, is a sign of how utterly sick and mentally neutered Western society has become. I'm sorry to derail the thread, but since this was a point that came up, it needs to be stated. For those who say race doesn't matter, it does. Not on a small-scale, personal level (this is where you judge a person on character as opposed to race); but on a large-scale, political one. Apparently everyone but White people understand this. I'll leave off with a lovely message from SNP Justice Minister Humza Yousaf, and his opinions on the travesty of too many Whites in Scotland, as an example of the racial hypocrisy that grips the West. We don't even have to imagine if it was in reverse: I just don't really understand why anyone cares about skin colour, either on an individual level or en masse. Why does it matter? Why should the Irish be white? I'm honestly baffled by the preoccupation of both right and left on such a cosmetic matter. In my view the important thing is not demographics but culture. And in truth the Irish people abandoned their culture (with the exception of the GAA) long before the influx of immigrants. The presence of Afghanis is not an obstacle to speaking Gaelic. The left play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but why play their game? Surely it's better to rise above it. The Left indeed play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but 'rising above it' just appears to be a strategy of permitting their multicultural experiment to carry on unopposed. We know here that the Liberal Left are destructive not constructive, they are obsessed with pulling down the whole edifice of the West and quite frankly don't give a damn about what follows, as long as they can signal their virtue to others and assuage the guilt of their own dark souls. If you are colour blind or don't care about colour then how can you refer to the Catholic idea you talked about earlier, welcoming the stranger or the sojourner. You either recognise the stranger or you don't, you can't have it both ways. I reckon everyone here would be kind to any foreigner or outsider they met. I certainly would see them as fellow human beings. But the scale and intent of this immigration experiment is bad, too big in scale and is being done with malevolent intent, and that is the key difference. And while you don't understand why skin colour matters, those immigrants coming in certainly take the opposite view. You will find in England and America that black people, particularly poorer black people, will generally gravitate to the same neighbourhoods, similarly with Muslims who now make up large neighbourhoods in Birmingham, Oldham, East End of London, Luton and many other areas. Things ghettoise and races and nationalities can start to feel disaffected if they perceive themselves not flourishing as others do. Do you really want to wake up in 40 years time and find that the Irish population is only 20% white or ethnically Celtic/Norman/Anglo. Do you really think that there would be any trace of cultural Irishness left? If the majority were Muslim then Sharia law would be a possibility. What incentive would there be for an Afghan to study Irish. Would the non-white majority discriminate against the smaller white population if propagandised to do so. Would anyone care anymore? Would there be any solidarity amongst the people anymore?
|
|
|
Post by Young Ireland on Sept 5, 2021 21:48:54 GMT
I just don't really understand why anyone cares about skin colour, either on an individual level or en masse. Why does it matter? Why should the Irish be white? I'm honestly baffled by the preoccupation of both right and left on such a cosmetic matter. In my view the important thing is not demographics but culture. And in truth the Irish people abandoned their culture (with the exception of the GAA) long before the influx of immigrants. The presence of Afghanis is not an obstacle to speaking Gaelic. The left play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but why play their game? Surely it's better to rise above it. The Left indeed play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but 'rising above it' just appears to be a strategy of permitting their multicultural experiment to carry on unopposed. We know here that the Liberal Left are destructive not constructive, they are obsessed with pulling down the whole edifice of the West and quite frankly don't give a damn about what follows, as long as they can signal their virtue to others and assuage the guilt of their own dark souls. If you are colour blind or don't care about colour then how can you refer to the Catholic idea you talked about earlier, welcoming the stranger or the sojourner. You either recognise the stranger or you don't, you can't have it both ways. I reckon everyone here would be kind to any foreigner or outsider they met. I certainly would see them as fellow human beings. But the scale and intent of this immigration experiment is bad, too big in scale and is being done with malevolent intent, and that is the key difference. And while you don't understand why skin colour matters, those immigrants coming in certainly take the opposite view. You will find in England and America that black people, particularly poorer black people, will generally gravitate to the same neighbourhoods, similarly with Muslims who now make up large neighbourhoods in Birmingham, Oldham, East End of London, Luton and many other areas. Things ghettoise and races and nationalities can start to feel disaffected if they perceive themselves not flourishing as others do. Do you really want to wake up in 40 years time and find that the Irish population is only 20% white or ethnically Celtic/Norman/Anglo. Do you really think that there would be any trace of cultural Irishness left? If the majority were Muslim then Sharia law would be a possibility. What incentive would there be for an Afghan to study Irish. Would the non-white majority discriminate against the smaller white population if propagandised to do so. Would anyone care anymore? Would there be any solidarity amongst the people anymore? Couldn't be part of this be the natural tendency for minorities to band together for support? This is by no means a racial thing: you have Irish, Italian and Jewish quarters in New York and other American cities, even if suburbanisation has weakened this somewhat. It's interesting you mention Celtic/Norman/Anglo in your last paragraph, as this implies that Irish people are an amalgam of different ethnic groups rather than a homogenous entity. I'm not sure how you expect the more recent arrivals to be any different a few generations down the road: in fact, we're already beginning to see New Irish GAA inter-county players, at least at minor level, and this will only increase in the future. It's also worth pointing out that national identity eventually encompasses minority groups within a few generations. Bear in mind that Italians, Poles, Jews and Irish people were not considered fully American until WW2, yet no one would say that their descendants were not American. Same story in Britain: most of the descendants of the Windrush generation do not identify with their grandparents' countries, but with England/ the UK. In 40 years time, the children and grandchildren of the New Irish will for the most part be culturally indistinguishable from their "native" Irish counterparts.
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 5, 2021 22:07:37 GMT
Do you really want to wake up in 40 years time and find that the Irish population is only 20% white or ethnically Celtic/Norman/Anglo. Do you really think that there would be any trace of cultural Irishness left? The honest answer to the first question is no. But whether the ethnically Irish are replaced by whites or non-whites is irrelevant to me, and I don't accept you have to be white to be Irish. If the preservation of Irish culture involves us becoming a minority in Irekand, perhaps that is what we must accept. After all, the Irish abroad seem prouder of their heritage than we are. I don't relish the prospect. I do worry that social solidarity declines with multiculturalism. I think this is an important debate. I want to preserve Irish cultural heritage but I also want to be submissive to Church teaching and to be realistic about the apparent unstoppability of globalisation. I also think we should not bring skin colour into it. Of course I'm not literally colour-blind but I strive to be.
|
|
|
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 5, 2021 22:14:05 GMT
The Left indeed play the race card to an obnoxious degree, but 'rising above it' just appears to be a strategy of permitting their multicultural experiment to carry on unopposed. We know here that the Liberal Left are destructive not constructive, they are obsessed with pulling down the whole edifice of the West and quite frankly don't give a damn about what follows, as long as they can signal their virtue to others and assuage the guilt of their own dark souls. If you are colour blind or don't care about colour then how can you refer to the Catholic idea you talked about earlier, welcoming the stranger or the sojourner. You either recognise the stranger or you don't, you can't have it both ways. I reckon everyone here would be kind to any foreigner or outsider they met. I certainly would see them as fellow human beings. But the scale and intent of this immigration experiment is bad, too big in scale and is being done with malevolent intent, and that is the key difference. And while you don't understand why skin colour matters, those immigrants coming in certainly take the opposite view. You will find in England and America that black people, particularly poorer black people, will generally gravitate to the same neighbourhoods, similarly with Muslims who now make up large neighbourhoods in Birmingham, Oldham, East End of London, Luton and many other areas. Things ghettoise and races and nationalities can start to feel disaffected if they perceive themselves not flourishing as others do. Do you really want to wake up in 40 years time and find that the Irish population is only 20% white or ethnically Celtic/Norman/Anglo. Do you really think that there would be any trace of cultural Irishness left? If the majority were Muslim then Sharia law would be a possibility. What incentive would there be for an Afghan to study Irish. Would the non-white majority discriminate against the smaller white population if propagandised to do so. Would anyone care anymore? Would there be any solidarity amongst the people anymore? Couldn't be part of this be the natural tendency for minorities to band together for support? This is by no means a racial thing: you have Irish, Italian and Jewish quarters in New York and other American cities, even if suburbanisation has weakened this somewhat. It's interesting you mention Celtic/Norman/Anglo in your last paragraph, as this implies that Irish people are an amalgam of different ethnic groups rather than a homogenous entity. I'm not sure how you expect the more recent arrivals to be any different a few generations down the road: in fact, we're already beginning to see New Irish GAA inter-county players, at least at minor level, and this will only increase in the future. It's also worth pointing out that national identity eventually encompasses minority groups within a few generations. Bear in mind that Italians, Poles, Jews and Irish people were not considered fully American until WW2, yet no one would say that their descendants were not American. Same story in Britain: most of the descendants of the Windrush generation do not identify with their grandparents' countries, but with England/ the UK. In 40 years time, the children and grandchildren of the New Irish will for the most part be culturally indistinguishable from their "native" Irish counterparts. Young Ireland, I think the prospect of cultural assimilation/fusion is less than it was in the past, given the fact that we don't really have a native culture as it is. I'm scared the common culture of old Irish and new Irish will simply be pop culture and consumerism. The GAA is the great exception and it's true they have been proactive in including immigrants.
|
|