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Post by cato on Feb 28, 2018 16:42:32 GMT
The government suspended the Dail today after a Fianna Fail TD compared the governments national development plan to something conjured up by the late Dr Joseph Goebbels.
A rather thin skinned Simon Harris claimed this was a shocking anti semitic attack on Jews. The minister's conscience is perfectly clear when it comes to eugenic measures for the unwanted unborn and stripping them of human rights.
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Post by cato on Mar 7, 2018 17:19:52 GMT
Imagine this way back in 1983. Some day an Irish supreme court would decide say in March 2018 that unborn Irish citizens have no rights except for the basic 8th ammendment protection to life. Back in 1983 we were told there was no need for a referendum as the unborn had implicit rights anyway and it was only scaremongering to imagine Irish courts undermining the right to life .... Fancy that.
It's also striking that many of the people who object to the 8th ammendment being in the constitution as it's divisive/complex etc etc now have no problem putting in a replacement text giving the Dail the power to legalise it. A little tiny contradiction here me thinks?
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Post by cato on Mar 9, 2018 22:48:00 GMT
2 TDs spoke out today to defend the pro life position. Several TDs announced they had abandoned their former pro life views based on "evidence". No TD announced they had changed their views from pro choice to pro life. All pro choice TDs were more confident and absolutist.
The contrast between now and 1983 is stark when virtually no politician openly advocated abortion provision. The lack of TDs articulating a pro life view shows how out of touch the Dail is . Even if the referendum is carried the pro life view is simply not being adequately represented by our public representatives who en masse have bought the abortion industry line hook line and sinker.
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Post by cato on Mar 18, 2018 19:12:28 GMT
Minister Regina Doherty seems to be going off the edge by saying she will never accept a defeat for repeal ( Is she conceding this referendum already?) She also said her previous pro life stance was down to "ignorance". Now that lady just came out with two very arrogant comments. She may come to regret uttering them.
It is consoling that she may one day change her mind again. My only fear is she have helped spread the culture of death in the meantime. I wonder which Queen her name Regina stands for?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 2, 2018 16:22:48 GMT
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Post by cato on Apr 2, 2018 19:15:52 GMT
I presumed she no longer practicised her faith based on her previous public role in drumming up support for undermining the equal right of the unborn to life. It is shocking that people like the good senator imagine they can call themselves catholics in any meaningful sense. I presume the take comfort from the line popularised by the Kennedys of being personally pro-life but ...... David Quinn has pointed out in a recent article that if every mass going voter voted No then the referendum would fail. Conversely if this referendum suceeds it will be due to liberal catholics who don't deem the unborn worthy of mercy and protection. All the forces of the state are ranged in alliance with most political parties, virtually all of the media and most of the entertainment world and the V.I.P.s. Their main weakness is their arrogance and the lack of resistence to date. This is an extreme law and may very well be more than most people can stomach. Trying to appease the feminist lobby on the part of the government will lead to a huge humiliation if this is defeated. This is a case of David versus Goliath. Please God David will topple the colossus again. No pun intended! |
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Post by cato on Apr 10, 2018 23:20:45 GMT
The pro choice lobby had their noses put out of joint by the sudden appearance of lots of No posters especially in the capital during the week. Many of those posters have mysteriously vanished to be replaced with Yes posters telling us rather patronisingly "Sometimes a private choice needs public support".
Rosa a hardline feminist group ask the public to " vote yes for equality yes for choice and yes for freedom".
Whatever about seeking the freedom and choice to abort , the reference to equality is perverse when the proposed ammendment seeks to remove the constitutional equal status of the unborn with her mother.
An opinion piece in the Sunday Times yesterday suggests the new ammendment if adopted inserts abortion into the section of the constitution concerning personal rights.Courts in the future may use that new status to undermine whatever limited restrictions governments may attempt to apply to the new law. We may end up with a very radical right to abortion in place of the current situation.
According to the theologian Thomas Finnegan of Mary Immaculate College " It is difficult to see how the Oireachtas could meaningfully restrict a right to abortion in the complete absence of any kind of right to life of the unborn". This may be alarmist but the present government are hell bent on giving the feminist movement the legislation they desire.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 11, 2018 12:34:25 GMT
I don't think it's alarmist at all. The meme showing Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger, with the question: "They could hold the balance of power in the next Dáil. What kind of abortion legislation do you think they will demand?" seems entirely appropriate.
Considering the "journey" that so many of our newly pro-abortion TD's have made, I think it's entirely appropriate to hammer on this theme.
Incidentally, if anyone on the forum is pro-choice, please feel free to speak up-- you won't be savaged. Even though I can hardly think of a position I hold with so much conviction, I don't want anyone to feel silenced.
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Post by Séamus on Apr 11, 2018 13:01:30 GMT
I don't think it's alarmist at all. The meme showing Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger, with the question: "They could hold the balance of power in the next Dáil. What kind of abortion legislation do you think they will demand?" seems entirely appropriate. Considering the "journey" that so many of our newly pro-abortion TD's have made, I think it's entirely appropriate to hammer on this theme. Incidentally, if anyone on the forum is pro-choice, please feel free to speak up-- you won't be savaged. Even though I can hardly think of a position I hold with so much conviction, I don't want anyone to feel silenced. Not terribly likely, but the fact that you said that reminds me of a bi-ritual priest who mentioned once, when in Perth, that out of the countries he was familiar with- in Ireland, Australia,USA Latin Mass attendees and generally traditional-liturgy-leaning Mass goers will almost universally follow Church teaching 100%. He noted that Britain was different in his observation. There can be a greater demand for the '62 Mass, for example or just 'high church' in general, but the same people can be outspokenly in favour of birth control, women's ordination etc.... I'm not sure that he meant that they'd actually go as far as being pro-abortion however. There seems to have been one Sinn Féin lady at least that took a stand. Some people in the medical profession seem to be making a courageous stand also. |
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 11, 2018 13:34:22 GMT
I'd hope no Catholics would be pro-abortion, but this is a forum for conservatives in general, so there may be some members or visitors who are pro-choice in some circumstances.
Canvassing on this issue has made me realize that many people have complicated views.
Of course, I'm opposed to abortion in all circumstances myself, and I think it should be illegal in all circumstances. I'm just trying to open the floor.
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Post by cato on Apr 11, 2018 19:27:45 GMT
I'd hope no Catholics would be pro-abortion, but this is a forum for conservatives in general, so there may be some members or visitors who are pro-choice in some circumstances. Canvassing on this issue has made me realize that many people have complicated views. Of course, I'm opposed to abortion in all circumstances myself, and I think it should be illegal in all circumstances. I'm just trying to open the floor. The father of modern American Republicanism Barry Goldwater was pro choice on liberterian grounds and the belief it was no business of the state. Margaret Thatcher also had a pretty regular pattern of supporting the British Abortion Act in parliamentary votes despite her reputation as being sympathetic to Victorian values. I have heard of right wing arguments that back abortion as it lowers crime rates by targetting black and working class pregnant women. Shades of the old eugenics movement and all of that. |
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Post by cato on Apr 11, 2018 20:42:03 GMT
Ronald Reagan as populist right wing governor of California signed abortion legislation on health/mental health grounds in 1967 prior to the infamous Roe versus Wade decision. He later claimed to regret his decision and says he was mislead by experts who claimed that numbers availing of the new law would be low.
As president in the 1980s Reagan took a pro life stance and cut aid to Planned Parenthood and banned abortions in US military hospitals.
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Post by servantofthechief on Apr 12, 2018 16:41:44 GMT
I take a certain comfort in a kind of realistic pessimism regarding the Irish people in the last referendum that National Party leader,Justin Barrett said on Dave Cullen's youtube interview (his second and most recent one to date) that the majority of Irish, even mass goers, have a negative opinion of the Institutional Church in Ireland, and viewed the gay marriage referendum as being making the Church take a blow, which given the last 30-50 years of propaganda and all the scandals, one can understand them wnating to do even though you may know better. His point however, that Abortion is so against the Irish spirit that if the Yes side keeps the matter about Abortion, the referendum will not only fail, it will fail catastrophically. So far, our enemies are making mistake after mistake, one of the most telling are posters appearing in the south telling people that if they are pro-life then they logically must also hold these other positions <generic list of right wing thought crimes goes here> The hilarious thing is, there are people thinking: "You know, you have a point there, maybe I AM right wing." I am confident that this referendum will fail, call it a hunch, but if it not only fails but results in awakening a right wing coalition all bound together with one solid, unbreakable value: The protection of life from conception, we will be a shock to all of Western Europe by suddenly producing the most avowedly nationalistic, eurosceptic and pro-religion/life/civilization populist opposition to the establishment this side of Hungary.
God in Highest Heaven, would that this come to pass.
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Post by unfortunately on Apr 28, 2018 18:40:49 GMT
I am going to vote to repeal the 8th amendment.
I think a woman should be able to end the pregnancy if the foetus has a developmentally abnormality and is likely to die before or soon after birth.
I think the pregnancy should be able to be terminated if there is a serious risk to the woman.
I think that a woman should be able to terminate in the early period before the foetus fully develops if she wants.
I believe what matters is awareness/conciousness, in the early period this is absent.
No one seeking an abortion takes it lightly or does it enthusiastically. It is a difficult choice but I think it should be available.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Apr 28, 2018 20:51:46 GMT
The thing about the "awareness/consciousness" argument, to me, is that I don't see how it wouldn't justify giving a lethal injection to someone who was fast asleep, if you thought that killing them would spare them or someone else a lot of suffering. They would not suffer and they wouldn't feel fear. Take, for instance, a hopeless alcoholic who was a burden to his family.
You might say they are simply not conscious at that moment, but they will be soon, in the natural order of things. But the same is true of the fetus. Awareness or consciousness can't be the mark of human life deserving of protection, because we all spend time unconscious every night.
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