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Post by cato on May 29, 2018 19:48:26 GMT
A truly alarming development is the manic rush to enact legislation as soon as possible. On any issue this is ill advised but on this issue it is insane. I suspect part of the rush is the fear the government will fall over another issue , perhaps the deaths of the 17 women who had misdiagnosed cervical cancer results. These deaths mysteriously vanished from the front pages a few weeks ago .
Tonight Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin is attempting to force his TDs to back the government's new laws based on the fact it is "the will of the people". This cynical overturning of the policy of his party is outrageous and further undermines what little remains of democracy around the way this issue has been rammed through.
Martin took advantage of a conscience clause to stab the pro life cause in the back but now wants to impose a whip it seems on his backbenchers. One can only pray they have some backbone to face him down.
The government have an ample majority on this sorry saga. Why o why must the small group of dissenters be crushed? Why must the 33% who passionately disapproved of this measure be denied a chance to formally record their disaproval on the Dail record. This totalitarian atmosphere is unbelievable and highly sinister. Some people seem possessed by an unearthly zeal to sweep away all opposition and silence all dissent on this issue. Worrying times indeed.
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Post by rogerbuck on May 29, 2018 22:34:29 GMT
Can't find words for the horror I feel.
Think this forum, as small it seems, is very important in light of this horror.
But not sure when I will be able find words.
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Post by cato on Jun 14, 2018 18:10:01 GMT
Cura is closing down due to pressure no doubt to facilitate "reproductive rights choices". In a way I am glad they haven't caved in and agreed to compromise their principles.
Leo Varadkar has said catholic hospitals will be forced to carry out abortions. If the orders that run these hospitals agree to this then this is a complete shameful abject surrender. Just what is the point of catholic hospitals were the unborn can be killed? What is the point of catholic schools that fail to pass on catholic values? We are wasting precious resources ,time and energy on buildings that are in reality huge millstones. A poor church divested of most of its' property would at least be free.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 14, 2018 20:46:20 GMT
Cura is closing down due to pressure no doubt to facilitate "reproductive rights choices". In a way I am glad they haven't caved in and agreed to compromise their principles. Leo Varadkar has said catholic hospitals will be forced to carry out abortions. If the orders that run these hospitals agree to this then this is a complete shameful abject surrender. Just what is the point of catholic hospitals were the unborn can be killed? What is the point of catholic schools that fail to pass on catholic values? We are wasting precious resources ,time and energy on buildings that are in reality huge millstones. A poor church divested of most of its' property would at least be free. I have always said I would prefer a small and poor Church. Which would be faithful and ready to take up its cross. The Church in Ireland will capitulate. Hell is paved with the skulls of Priests.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 14, 2018 21:02:01 GMT
Cura is closing down due to pressure no doubt to facilitate "reproductive rights choices". In a way I am glad they haven't caved in and agreed to compromise their principles. Leo Varadkar has said catholic hospitals will be forced to carry out abortions. If the orders that run these hospitals agree to this then this is a complete shameful abject surrender. Just what is the point of catholic hospitals were the unborn can be killed? What is the point of catholic schools that fail to pass on catholic values? We are wasting precious resources ,time and energy on buildings that are in reality huge millstones. A poor church divested of most of its' property would at least be free. I have always said I would prefer a small and poor Church. Which would be faithful and ready to take up its cross. The Church in Ireland will capitulate. Hell is paved with the skulls of Priests. I think it's important to say that we have a lot of very good priests, too.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 15, 2018 6:12:42 GMT
I have always said I would prefer a small and poor Church. Which would be faithful and ready to take up its cross. The Church in Ireland will capitulate. Hell is paved with the skulls of Priests. I think it's important to say that we have a lot of very good priests, too. What is a "good" Priest?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 15, 2018 8:19:14 GMT
That's a rather odd question....
A good priest is one who lives out his vocation faithfully, to the best of his abiltiies.
There are so many different ways this could be manifested I don't know how to number them. Generally, the things I look for:
He makes himself available for confessions.
He preaches Christianity as the truth, not just a "faith tradition", and he speaks about the supernatural realities of the Faith.
He is evangelistic. He urges his congregation to be evangelistic.
Really, there are so many possible ways for a priest to be good I don't know how to list them.
I don't consider a priest good if he preaches heresy. Although sometimes I think priests say iffy things in homilies, not deliberately but unthinkingly. I don't expect them to be perfect. We have to remember how difficult things are for priests right now.
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Post by cato on Jun 15, 2018 9:04:37 GMT
That's a rather odd question.... A good priest is one who lives out his vocation faithfully, to the best of his abiltiies. There are so many different ways this could be manifested I don't know how to number them. Generally, the things I look for: He makes himself available for confessions. He preaches Christianity as the truth, not just a "faith tradition", and he speaks about the supernatural realities of the Faith. He is evangelistic. He urges his congregation to be evangelistic. Really, there are so many possible ways for a priest to be good I don't know how to list them. I don't consider a priest good if he preaches heresy. Although sometimes I think priests say iffy things in homilies, not deliberately but unthinkingly. I don't expect them to be perfect. We have to remember how difficult things are for priests right now. Ideally a priest should also be a man of courage but many good priests are rather inoffensive , timid even. Courage however is rare in all walks of life today. We live in an era which claims to value diversity but insists on boring tepid uniformity. The great Russian prophet Alexander Solzhenitsyn identified the lack of courageous leadership in his famous Harvard address in 1978 as one of the main vices of the West. Things haven't improved since. We need a few John the Baptist figures to counter the many "journeying" Herods and their minions.
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Post by Stephen on Jun 15, 2018 11:32:54 GMT
That's a rather odd question.... A good priest is one who lives out his vocation faithfully, to the best of his abiltiies. There are so many different ways this could be manifested I don't know how to number them. Generally, the things I look for: He makes himself available for confessions. He preaches Christianity as the truth, not just a "faith tradition", and he speaks about the supernatural realities of the Faith. He is evangelistic. He urges his congregation to be evangelistic. Really, there are so many possible ways for a priest to be good I don't know how to list them. I don't consider a priest good if he preaches heresy. Although sometimes I think priests say iffy things in homilies, not deliberately but unthinkingly. I don't expect them to be perfect. We have to remember how difficult things are for priests right now. Ideally a priest should also be a man of courage but many good priests are rather inoffensive , timid even. Courage however is rare in all walks of life today. We live in an era which claims to value diversity but insists on boring tepid uniformity. The great Russian prophet Alexander Solzhenitsyn identified the lack of courageous leadership in his famous Harvard address in 1978 as one of the main vices of the West. Things haven't improved since. We need a few John the Baptist figures to counter the many "journeying" Herods and their minions. You have hit the nail on the head... I often hear people talking about how great a Priest they know is... But I always think why. Most Priest care to much about offending people than speaking the truth be it on divorce, bad business practices, other religions, LGBT issues, etc. I only expect high standards as that is what is expect of us all.
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Post by Séamus on Jun 16, 2018 4:32:15 GMT
Cura is closing down due to pressure no doubt to facilitate "reproductive rights choices". In a way I am glad they haven't caved in and agreed to compromise their principles. Leo Varadkar has said catholic hospitals will be forced to carry out abortions. If the orders that run these hospitals agree to this then this is a complete shameful abject surrender. Just what is the point of catholic hospitals were the unborn can be killed? What is the point of catholic schools that fail to pass on catholic values? We are wasting precious resources ,time and energy on buildings that are in reality huge millstones. A poor church divested of most of its' property would at least be free. I have known people to wonder, even hypothetically, with other countries, with a much smaller catholic sector: If the Church did decide to close all agencies in a country would the government not feel this profoundly?;if suddenly the government had to carry the weight of all hospitals, for example,or see purely commercial enterprises take them over for the sake of profit alone? It's hard to speculate exactly what this would look like. Hypothetical anyway. Church agencies would never unite like that these days.
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Post by cato on Jun 16, 2018 8:59:52 GMT
Many of the people voicing strong anti catholic views also have rather cavalier attitudes to the Churches rightto possess its' own property. Several times I have heard reference to the state "taking land back" which shows an ignorance of both Irish history ( the state never owned the land in the first place) and the protection of private property in the constitution.
I fear a greatly weakened church will not summon the courage to voluntary divest surplus property . This will become the new focus of secularist rage especially as the state continues to make a mess of the health and housing systems. Yesterday it emerged that 30,000 of new houses do not in fact exist in reality! The new Ireland has a serious problem with basic maths let alone truth .
A couple of years ago the Central Statistics Office stopped publishing crime statistics as the official Garda data was largely made up. Another outrageous dishonest scandal that our grandchildren will decry in 50 years time.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Jun 16, 2018 9:22:35 GMT
I must admit I'm rather relishing the prospect of a persecution in Ireland, even a "soft persecution". I think it's just the thing needed to energise the faithful.
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Post by cato on Jun 16, 2018 13:20:32 GMT
I must admit I'm rather relishing the prospect of a persecution in Ireland, even a "soft persecution". I think it's just the thing needed to energise the faithful. I fear it will occur but we will go out with a whimper and not a bang. Spinelessness seems to our main core value as catholics nowadays. I hope I am wrong about the revival.
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Post by seangladium on Jun 17, 2018 3:19:23 GMT
I must admit I'm rather relishing the prospect of a persecution in Ireland, even a "soft persecution". I think it's just the thing needed to energise the faithful. I have felt the same way for a while now, and I wonder if this is the only realistic way the faith will be restored in Ireland, but at the same time I wonder if I will regret that I feel this way. I worry for my children especially as I fear that they will bear the brunt of this persecution.
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Post by rogerbuck on Jun 18, 2018 9:41:43 GMT
The only hope I can really see is the backlash against political correctness on the internet, especially amongst the young-- Milo, Jordan Petersen, and so forth. Both of those figures are strongly pro-life. Dave Cullen put up a powerful video today. I, too, take some heart in this phenomenon - representatives of conservative America or North America. Which is ironic for me to say, given what I feel about most of the stuff pouring out of America. What horrifies me in the fact that I feel like you do, Maolsheachlann, i.e. in you naming your "only hope" you don't mention the Church - either here in Ireland or abroad or in Rome ... For obvious reasons. It is horrifying that I feel similarly ... what hope I have lies in this. And not, say, the Holy Father and the bishops ...
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