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Post by cato on May 25, 2018 13:16:42 GMT
Today is a beautiful sunny day in Dublin. I walked along a lovely country road to my voting station in Kinsealy the former home of Charles Haughey , who threw Fianna Fail support behind the pro life amendment in 1983. The voting station is an old parish hall. The church beside it looked solid and venerable. It was locked. I don't know if this is normal or whether it was because of the day that was in it.
Outside flew the tricolour and the papal flag. The voting station had 2 couples with children ahead of me. Yes or no voters? Hard to say. I got my ballot . Everyone seemed nervous . Shifty. A little embarassed. I marked my no . I marked it again and again. I felt saddened at the enormity of what we as a people were doing. I folded my ballot. I felt like crying. I caught the eye of the woman giving out the papers. She looked surprised. Walking out into the sun I realised part of Ireland's culture and soul may be passing away in the space of a few hours.
On the way home I spent a little time in St Dulaing's church and holy well. It too was locked. It looks like everything a rural beautiful simple church should look like. I prayed beside the dried up holy well. I doubt too many people pray there nowadays. It was one of the first places of christian worship 1400 odd years ago , it is quiet and serene. Every 7 or 8 minutes a low flying Ryan Air or Aer lingus jet would break the silence as it brought visitors and the much heralded returnee exiles coming home to vote.
On this beautiful May day it feels like something ancient , precious and pure is being thrown away. I pray I am wrong.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 25, 2018 13:39:52 GMT
I feel the same, cato. I was the only "No" badge I could see on the morning commute.
I went to the church in UCD to pray at lunch-time. I thought there would be quite a flock of people there praying, but there wasn't.
Even though it's been very sunny early, I'm at work in the library now and I can hear the wind moaning outside. It seems symbolic.
Yesterday I went to the supermarket and all the girls behind the counter were wearing Yes badges-- polite, friendly girls who I've always found very likeable. The Irish accent itself is gentle and friendly, as are the expression on Irish peoples' faces. But they seem to be about to decide that an unborn child can be murdered.
I keep looking at all the people NOT wearing badges (the majority), and wondering-- is he a No voter? Is she a No voter?
There is a horrible feeling of unreality about it at all.
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Post by maryt on May 25, 2018 14:39:27 GMT
I feel the same, cato. I was the only "No" badge I could see on the morning commute. I went to the church in UCD to pray at lunch-time. I thought there would be quite a flock of people there praying, but there wasn't. Even though it's been very sunny early, I'm at work in the library now and I can hear the wind moaning outside. It seems symbolic. Yesterday I went to the supermarket and all the girls behind the counter were wearing Yes badges-- polite, friendly girls who I've always found very likeable. The Irish accent itself is gentle and friendly, as are the expression on Irish peoples' faces. But they seem to be about to decide that an unborn child can be murdered. I keep looking at all the people NOT wearing badges (the majority), and wondering-- is he a No voter? Is she a No voter? There is a horrible feeling of unreality about it at all.
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Post by maryt on May 25, 2018 14:42:44 GMT
I too was the only one wearing a no badge on my commute. Attended a holy hour last night to pray for a no result it was quite well attended.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 25, 2018 14:50:14 GMT
There's a high turn-out, it seems. Rightly or wrongly, the suggestion was made in recent days that a high turnout would favour the Yes campaign. (I'm not quite sure of why that should be myself, but maybe I'm just slow.) www.rte.ie/news/2018/0525/965925-eighth-amendment-voting/The news report mentions twenty people waiting outside a polling station before it opens. My mind went back to Storm Ophelia and the pandemonium for bread and milk. Back then, I stood for about twenty minutes in a queue in Eurospar in Glasnevin. It's rather sad that a major political decision, a major human rights decision, isn't even on the same level of intensity.
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Post by ClassicalRepublican on May 25, 2018 14:51:13 GMT
A truly appaling and abusive thing for a government to ever ask of a people.
But moreover, in truth, an appaling thing for a people to ever tolerate being asked.
Reprehensible and utterly, utterly anticivilisational.
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Post by optatuscleary on May 25, 2018 15:37:10 GMT
I am here in California praying and fasting for a No vote. It feels incongruous because it is a day of celebration at the school where I teach, celebrating the end of the school year. It is also oddly, unseasonably cold and it might rain: this does not happen often at this time of year in the San Joaquin Valley of California. The weather has transported me to Ireland.
I love and care about Ireland, and so I desperately hope for a No result for Ireland’s sake. But beyond Ireland, this referendum has massive repercussions. Ireland is a beautiful example of a functioning society without legalized abortion. Without Ireland, I don’t know what the future of the pro-life movement will be. Here in America the pro-choice side always portrays a pro-life society as thoroughly dystopian and nightmarish. Ireland has heretofore been a wonderful counter-example, and its loss would be detrimental to the movement world-wide.
Also, I know the result will be close. I know that whatever the result, half the people will be opposed to it. However, even a narrow victory for “Yes” will be portrayed as representing the entirety of the Irish people, while a “No” vote will be portrayed as thwarting the will of the people and hijacking the vote. In Catholic circles here I’ll be asked questions by people who know I have lived in Ireland, and the questions will be hostile and start from an assumption that the result represents 100% of the people. (By the way, I have noticed this is a tendency outside the United States...here, we seem to be quite aware of political division, and that most votes are won narrowly. However, when I hear reporting from other countries the result is always portrayed as overwhelming even when it isn’t. For instance, the degree to which Northern Ireland voted Remain, or England voted Leave, are not sufficient to be portrayed as being absolute).
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 25, 2018 20:51:11 GMT
One thing that I think that should be mentioned....by all accounts I've heard, the Travelling community strongly leaned No.
I don't go in for treating the Travelling community like a sacred cow, just because they are a minority, but they deserve praise for this.
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Post by seangladium on May 25, 2018 21:58:55 GMT
Looks pretty grim. I feel just sick to my stomach.
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Post by cato on May 25, 2018 22:44:03 GMT
This looks devastating. The predicted 68% victory (according to the Irish Times) is greater than the gay marriage vote. Turn out seems to be higher too.
During the week I had heard the yes side were scoring 50% in canvassing in parts of Donegal. Once apon a time Donegal had 6/6 pro life TDs now it has 2. If thats what's happening in pro life heartlands then the retain campaign is in deep trouble. In my Dublin workplace 80% of staff were supporting repeal. Yes badges on the street outnumbered Nos by a huge factor. Ordinary no supporters were invisible and reluctant to voice their views.
The odds were always against a pro life victory. The big battalions usually beat the little guys. An efficient ruthless campaign aided by a completely sympathetic media with the backing of huge American corporations like Facebook Google and our old friend George Soros would seem to have squashed their opponents in a shameless but convincing manner. The above poll is only a poll and hope springs eternal and all that .... but I could never work out were the potential retain vote was going to come from given the halfing of church attendence and a huge increase in anti catholic sentiment since 1983.
To be frank the Irish Church didn't deserve the false comfort of a retain victory. It is in deep trouble and needs to sort itself out. Thats a story for another day. The real losers are the future children of the nation that we claim to cherish equally.
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Post by Severed on May 25, 2018 23:13:04 GMT
Matthew, 27-
20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
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Post by Maryt on May 25, 2018 23:28:58 GMT
Matthew, 27- 20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. 24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
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Post by Maryt on May 25, 2018 23:31:46 GMT
That passage from the bible was in my head all day at the thought of the YES side winning
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Post by Maolsheachlann on May 25, 2018 23:55:37 GMT
I never expected it could have been this bad. Someone posted this on Facebook: "I no longer have a country. This is not my nation, state or land." That's how I feel, except where else is my land if it is not Ireland?
Not only a devastating blow to Ireland, but to the pro-life cause everywhere.
What else is there to say? The radicals in Ireland have been hewing away for six decades or so and now they have felled the roofbeam. Anything else is just a mopping up operation.
We are now strangers in a strange land. We need to turn to God for consolation at a moment like this. I suggest watching some comedies or doing something to keep your mood up. We will have ample opportunity to mourn.
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Post by Severed on May 26, 2018 7:51:40 GMT
As a northern Catholic, I will now be voting DUP. Never in a million years thought I'd say that, but I'd rather Stormont with no abortion.
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