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Post by Stephen on Feb 25, 2022 7:59:10 GMT
I heard Simon Coveney saying today that we had in common with the Ukrainian people that we both had big families. I know Simon comes from a big family but I wouldn't have thought big families were a priority for this government or other recent ones. Surely we have something in common with the Russians? A bit of diplomacy with an eye to future relations wouldn't go astray. Why does the Irish government pretend to be neutral? We clearly are not.
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Post by Tomas on Feb 25, 2022 8:01:14 GMT
Ironically 24 February was Estonia Independence Day. This is long since planned moves by Russia with Putin. The imminent danger for Balticum to be occupied again, and Ukraine already in open conflict this is not a good time for looking forward. Acute opinions appears at a loss. Military men and historians of the old schools has been aware of this for decades. To no avail in regard to politics. But the weak/corrupt "leaders" in the West is the worst part in this game (apart from the imperial Red Tyranny itself). No oppositon among the public, and no much defence either (apart from Nuclear catastrophic scenarios there is probably a dilemma that modern warfare is so different that we can´t even guess the tactics on the ground level as laymen, to be fair it looks less probable to be an "historic war" of the proportions of hundred thousand dead or so?).
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 25, 2022 9:52:03 GMT
Part of me wishes the Ukraine would just surrender to minimize the loss of life, while part of me wants them to beat the hell out of the Russians.
And I'm still a Russophile...
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Post by Tomas on Feb 25, 2022 11:23:12 GMT
Ukraine has the third largest Jewish population in Europe (some 250 000 - 350 000 citizens, around 1/3 of the population before World War II) and they are now being invited by Israel to make an Aliyah or exodus to the Holy Land if they would want/need to. The leader of the resistance against the invasion is also a Jewish man, voted in as President with a strong popular mandate (73,2 percent in the second voting). Being an actor his party was apropiately built on his tv-serie and had the same name as that one, so probably a full flown "populist" according to several mainstream trash media.
The population have been integrated there without rupture for around 1200 years or so, with the early settlement documented from some time in the 800s.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 25, 2022 14:17:14 GMT
I honestly don't know what to make of it all, asides from the sentiments shared by everybody that the loss of life is terrible. The more I read and listen, the more different sides there seems to be to this conflict. I'm not so sure I buy the narrative that Putin has either gone mad or decided his army is now sufficiently developed to try to recreate the Russian Empire. His claims that he is acting out of Russian security concerns and that he has pleaded with the West for years to guarantee Ukraine would not join NATO seems not so easily dismissed. And I'm inclined to say that the EU, which was supposedly the guardian of peace in Europe for decades, has now been one of the catalysts for war, since Ukraine's impending application seems to have been part of what spooked Russia so much. Is it not the lesson of the two World Wars that power blocs and grand military alliances almost inevitably lead to war? The counter-argument might be that less powerful states could easily be picked off by bigger ones. But that's happening anyway...
I acknowledge I could be completely wrong about this.
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Post by cato on Feb 25, 2022 14:44:45 GMT
I heard Simon Coveney saying today that we had in common with the Ukrainian people that we both had big families. I know Simon comes from a big family but I wouldn't have thought big families were a priority for this government or other recent ones. Surely we have something in common with the Russians? A bit of diplomacy with an eye to future relations wouldn't go astray. Why does the Irish government pretend to be neutral? We clearly are not. I am not a fan of how we practice our sacred cow neutrality but we have never stayed silent when an international outrage has occurred. September 11th was a recent example and if memory serves me right De Valera condemned the German invasion of Poland in 1939.
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Post by cato on Feb 25, 2022 14:58:17 GMT
I honestly don't know what to make of it all, asides from the sentiments shared by everybody that the loss of life is terrible. The more I read and listen, the more different sides there seems to be to this conflict. I'm not so sure I buy the narrative that Putin has either gone mad or decided his army is now sufficiently developed to try to recreate the Russian Empire. His claims that he is acting out of Russian security concerns and that he has pleaded with the West for years to guarantee Ukraine would not join NATO seems not so easily dismissed. And I'm inclined to say that the EU, which was supposedly the guardian of peace in Europe for decades, has now been one of the catalysts for war, since Ukraine's impending application seems to have been part of what spooked Russia so much. Is it not the lesson of the two World Wars that power blocs and grand military alliances almost inevitably lead to war? The counter-argument might be that less powerful states could easily be picked off by bigger ones. But that's happening anyway... I acknowledge I could be completely wrong about this. Its often forgotten Ukraine inherited the 4th largest nuclear arsenal in the world after the fall of communism but destroyed those weapons in return for security guarantees from the west and ..... Russia in 1994. The EU is a paper tiger in military terms. Trump constantly berated the European NATO members for underspending on their military and over reliance on US protection. That never changed. If anything they have tempted Putin to take advantage of their weakness. The German army head admitted a few days ago he cannot even defend Germany let alone her allies. Germany spends around €50 billion on its military so its a major achievement to spend so much to manage to achieve such a pathetic outcome. The EU has never morphed into a formal military alliance despite French imperial fantasies and the formal provisions in European treaties. A rich weak power bloc will attract more envious ruthless enemies. It happened to ancient Rome ....
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 25, 2022 16:58:18 GMT
Rightly or wrongly, I'm looking at those pictures of Kiev residents holding guns and hoping that they run as soon as the tanks come.
Defending your country is very noble and perhaps even a duty in some circumstances, but going up against Russian tanks seems like a suicide mission.
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Post by cato on Feb 26, 2022 16:24:50 GMT
Rightly or wrongly, I'm looking at those pictures of Kiev residents holding guns and hoping that they run as soon as the tanks come. Defending your country is very noble and perhaps even a duty in some circumstances, but going up against Russian tanks seems like a suicide mission. I think of the young Chinese man with his shopping bags who stood in front of the Chinese army tank column in Peking in that famous photo shaming them into stopping in 1989 . We don't know what happened to him after those tanks began to massacre their own citizens. The citizens of Hungary and Czechoslovakia famously stood up to Soviet tanks often with their bare hands when they were oppressed too back in Soviet times. I don't know if I would have their courage but running away is exactly what Putin wants those he despises to do.
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Feb 26, 2022 17:12:00 GMT
Why does the Irish government pretend to be neutral? We clearly are not. I am not a fan of how we practice our sacred cow neutrality but we have never stayed silent when an international outrage has occurred. September 11th was a recent example and if memory serves me right De Valera condemned the German invasion of Poland in 1939. Can a neutral country join the EU and can they put sanction on another nation?
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Post by Seán Ó Murchú on Feb 26, 2022 17:12:53 GMT
A very interesting video about wokeness and a new Russiaphobi. Picks up some of the points you have discussed youtu.be/t3DrtDJBo5I
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Post by cato on Feb 26, 2022 18:49:00 GMT
I am not a fan of how we practice our sacred cow neutrality but we have never stayed silent when an international outrage has occurred. September 11th was a recent example and if memory serves me right De Valera condemned the German invasion of Poland in 1939. Can a neutral country join the EU and can they put sanction on another nation? Yes. Sweden, Finland, Austria, Malta and ourselves. The other 20 odd members are in NATO. Yes neutral counties can impose or take part in sanctions. We have been doing it for decades. Neutral countries can even take part in military action under the UN charter like Ireland , Sweden and India in the Congo in the 1960s. Its very unlikely the UN will intervene in this war given the Russians have a security Council veto.
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Post by cato on Feb 26, 2022 19:04:03 GMT
A very interesting video about wokeness and a new Russiaphobi. Picks up some of the points you have discussed youtu.be/t3DrtDJBo5IObjecting to that vile lying thug in the Kremlin who has launched the first unprovoked shooting invasion in Europe since 1945 is not Russiaphobia.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Feb 27, 2022 8:33:24 GMT
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Post by cato on Feb 27, 2022 13:41:49 GMT
Putin has announced this lunch time he is putting Russian strategic nuclear forces on high alert in response to NATO statements! I don't subscribe to the mad Putin theory but this naked paranoid malevolence is historically unprecedented and alarming. This is deliberate brinkmanship with the fate of humanity .
But sure its really the west's fault bla bla bla forcing Putin to attack a neighbour and forcing him to threaten armagedon.....
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