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Post by hilary on Mar 20, 2022 20:19:41 GMT
Its rather strange that so many on the Irish right (and far left) adopt a pro Russian line on this war dragging up red herrings and indulging in whataboutery on a colossal skill when a neutral country has been cruelly invaded by a nuclear armed dictator. The same dictator has threatened the first strike use of nuclear weapons. Hilary- claiming Putin is somehow engaging in a just war is perverse in the extreme. There seems to be an attitude that Russias feelings of insecurity ( no matter how objectively ridiculous) trump the rights of the East European states conquered by Stalin and betrayed at Yalta by the West. Once apon a time the right believed in freedom and security for all nations in Europe and not merely the biggest. People in Eastern Europe recognise creeping totalitarianism, and increasingly people in the West are becoming aware of it too. Especially in the last two years - our freedom and security have been taken from us under the "emergency" of Covid. Many people have warned of the threat of globalism and the new world order - for example, Deirdre Manifold (1914-2013) in her book "Fatima and the Great Conspiracy", written in 1982. She wrote "The main weapons to be used in the fulfillment of that aim (a new world order) were financial control and war." I heard it said recently that in the last two years investors in big pharma and big tech benefitted from a transfer of wealth from us, the taxpayers (and future generations), and that investors in military equipment now want their cut. The war is also a distraction from the fallout from Covid. Putin responded to Zelensky's address to the Munich Security Conference in February (where Zelensky hinted that Ukraine might pursue nuclear weapons) saying: "Radical nationalists took advantage of the justified public discontent and saddled the Maidan protest, escalating it to a coup d'état in 2014. They also had direct assistance from foreign states. According to reports, the US Embassy provided $1 million a day to support the so-called protest camp on Independence Square in Kiev. In addition, large amounts were impudently transferred directly to the opposition leaders’ bank accounts, tens of millions of dollars. But the people who actually suffered, the families of those who died in the clashes provoked in the streets and squares of Kiev and other cities, how much did they get in the end? Better not ask." and "According to international organisations, in 2019, almost 6 million Ukrainians – I emphasise – about 15 percent, not of the workforce, but of the entire population of that country, had to go abroad to find work. Most of them do odd jobs. The following fact is also revealing: since 2020, over 60,000 doctors and other health workers have left the country amid the pandemic." and "Are the Ukrainian people aware that this is how their country is managed? Do they realise that their country has turned not even into a political or economic protectorate but has been reduced to a colony with a puppet regime? The state was privatised. As a result, the government, which designates itself as the “power of patriots” no longer acts in a national capacity and consistently pushes Ukraine towards losing its sovereignty." Putin sets out the history of Ukraine, obviously from his perspective. I don't know whether it's true or not but he sets it out in good faith, coherently, and it's there to be contradicted if people can. When he asks whether people in Ukraine realise that their country has been reduced to a colony with a puppet regime I think similar could be said about Ireland. The last few elections and referenda have been run under heavy media censorship with little or no balance in debates. Where there were journalists in the past who tried to get to the truth, now radio and tv show hosts follow a script and an agenda which is given to them. That Joe Biden can say for the third time that he's Irish but he's not stupid and that our Taoiseach is being kept in the US apparently for ten days after testing positive for Covid is quite shocking. Mary Lou McDonald got to meet Biden so maybe there's another regime change in the offing.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 20, 2022 21:00:34 GMT
Well, I don't know what to make of all that, but I'm quite amused by Biden saying he is Irish but not stupid. It's just a joke. He considers himself Irish so its' self-mocking humour.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 20, 2022 21:10:11 GMT
Interestingly, Peter Hitchens addresses the concept of "whataboutery" in his column today!
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Post by Séamus on Mar 21, 2022 11:24:07 GMT
Its rather strange that so many on the Irish right (and far left) adopt a pro Russian line on this war dragging up red herrings and indulging in whataboutery on a colossal skill when a neutral country has been cruelly invaded by a nuclear armed dictator. The same dictator has threatened the first strike use of nuclear weapons. Hilary- claiming Putin is somehow engaging in a just war is perverse in the extreme. There seems to be an attitude that Russias feelings of insecurity ( no matter how objectively ridiculous) trump the rights of the East European states conquered by Stalin and betrayed at Yalta by the West. Once apon a time the right believed in freedom and security for all nations in Europe and not merely the biggest. People...etc... Many people have warned of the threat of globalism and the new world order - for example, Deirdre Manifold (1914-2013) in her book "Fatima and the Great Conspiracy", written in 1982. She wrote "The main weapons to be used in the fulfillment of that aim (a new world order) were financial control and war." ...etc.... I read the book many years ago and recently came across a copy in an Australian presbytery. She made passing mention of Mary Robinson in context of the Fatima message's relevance towards the current world powers. Probably prophetic for 1982.
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Post by Tomas on Mar 30, 2022 8:47:41 GMT
Just to pick up on something Antaine mentioned, here is the link to the BBC item in 2014 about the extreme, radical groups who, according to the BBC reporter, "kept up the pressure on Victor Yanukovych", who was then removed from office. bbc.in/3w4HxsIOne young man talks about having "a clean nation" and "Ukraine will be just for Ukrainians". This was covered on UK Column News last Monday (14/3) and is available on demand on their website along with a lot of other material which provides a good balance to the mainstream narrative. I don't think Ireland should be taking sides in this. Micheal Martin's comment that "we're not morally neutral" (to an English TV station) would not stand up to scrutiny given the contents of the BBC clip and if it is true that the Ukrainian government is allied with far-right, nazi groups. The Catholic Church here also welcomed the waiving of visa requirements for Ukrainians seeking refuge in Ireland - this seems very political to me. The Bishops talked about the "horrific bombardment, death, displacement and destruction in Ukraine" but according to the BBC clip from 2014, the people of Kiev even then were having a hard time, with the city effectively being policed by gangs. Putin seems to be directing his operations at military installations and with some analysis mightn't it qualify as a just war if he is doing that and preventing further loss of life? There are long lines of cars along safe exit corridors. I wonder why some people can stay and others have to flee. Its rather strange that so many on the Irish right (and far left) adopt a pro Russian line on this war dragging up red herrings and indulging in whataboutery on a colossal skill when a neutral country has been cruelly invaded by a nuclear armed dictator. The same dictator has threatened the first strike use of nuclear weapons. Hilary- claiming Putin is somehow engaging in a just war is perverse in the extreme. There seems to be an attitude that Russias feelings of insecurity ( no matter how objectively ridiculous) trump the rights of the East European states conquered by Stalin and betrayed at Yalta by the West. Once apon a time the right believed in freedom and security for all nations in Europe and not merely the biggest. It´s obvious no one should trust Moscow. But as has been unfortunate is the streamlined one narrative fits all. This may even be the beginning of WWIII albeit fought in another way than the first and second.
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Post by Antaine on Mar 30, 2022 20:42:17 GMT
Going back to my controversial post concerning the race of the "Ukrainian refugees" coming into this country, why is it that there are an increasing number of blatant non-Ukrainians coming in? They do not look, nor do they even sound, Ukrainian. Even if you want to claim that race is unimportant, what are we supposed to make of people with strong African, Middle Eastern, or Asian accents coming in? Is it still racist to call a spade a spade? Are we now supposed to believe that "real Europeans" can look and sound like someone ripped straight from one of the aforementioned places? And if so, at what point exactly are we supposed to draw a line for this nonsense? Or are we just supposed to import the entire world in case some anti-white, racist, parasite slanders us?
Furthermore - and this somewhat relates to the picture I posted before - how is it that so many of these supposed Ukrainian men are in this country if they're supposed to fight for the country? Or are we now to believe they are Ukrainian enough to be considered refugees, but not Ukrainian enough to have to fight? The attached video hits on some points I had myself:
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Post by cato on Mar 30, 2022 22:48:27 GMT
Going back to my controversial post concerning the race of the "Ukrainian refugees" coming into this country, why is it that there are an increasing number of blatant non-Ukrainians coming in? They do not look, nor do they even sound, Ukrainian. Even if you want to claim that race is unimportant, what are we supposed to make of people with strong African, Middle Eastern, or Asian accents coming in? Is it still racist to call a spade a spade? Are we now supposed to believe that "real Europeans" can look and sound like someone ripped straight from one of the aforementioned places? And if so, at what point exactly are we supposed to draw a line for this nonsense? Or are we just supposed to import the entire world in case some anti-white, racist, parasite slanders us? Furthermore - and this somewhat relates to the picture I posted before - how is it that so many of these supposed Ukrainian men are in this country if they're supposed to fight for the country? Or are we now to believe they are Ukrainian enough to be considered refugees, but not Ukrainian enough to have to fight? The attached video hits on some points I had myself: Antaine I have also mentioned previously concerns about the huge numbers of refugees being bandied about as 100,000 -200,000 extra people will simply overwhelm social housing and welfare resources. I haven't heard any discussion about this on RTE and I fear genuine refugees are going to end up on the streets eventually if we ignore the limits of what we can realistically provide. We also have obligations to genuine refugees fleeing violent assault from the strongest military on the European continent. It does appear on anecdotal evidence and your attached video that abuses are occurring. This is illegal and offenders should be deported. That "citizen journalist" featured in Paul Watson's video is a high ranking member of Justin Barretts National Party, widely seen as far right in current Irish politics. I removed your original picture Antaine as it contained children and was easy to identify the particular group. You can make a point about possible illegal immigration without singling out individual people. Most people posting here would claim to defend human dignity and respect the vulnerable.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 31, 2022 8:25:33 GMT
Is there more evidence for this than one photograph and one video? Even in this video, the maker pans out to show plenty of white women and children, which seems to be his priority.
By the way, where did the Irish government ever say that we were only taking in women and children? I've looked for a source for this and can't find it. And why do we all suddenly become misandrist when it comes to immigrants or refugees? Do we really want men who live in Ukraine to be cannon fodder for the Russians-- whatever the colour of their skin or their age?
I'm NOT saying that Irish immigrant and asylum seeker policy isn't a complete joke. If we hadn't open our borders to the entire world, we would be better able to accommodate genuine refugees. I'm really not sure what huge numbers of Brazilians and Nigerians are doing here. They're not EU citizens and I don't see why Nigerians fleeing Boko Haram would have to travel all the way to Ireland.
I do also think the emphasis should be on refugees returning to their country of origin as soon as it's safe.
But it's quite painful to see how the men in this video speak very politely and trustingly to this Dwyer character and how he's persistently sarcastic and hostile.
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Post by hilary on Mar 31, 2022 17:39:32 GMT
People like the Indian men in the video could be genuine refugees (although possibly originally economic migrants) as there seem to be some Nazi type groups in Ukraine - maybe small in number but supporting the government. It would be great to have TV programmes that reported the reasons different people might be fleeing or leaving Ukraine. I did read a story a couple of weeks back about a Ukrainian family - five lovely girls and another baby on the way. The father was retired from the Ukrainian navy and they had been on holiday in Egypt before deciding to come to Ireland. The girls are all classical trained musicians. They weren't hiding their identity or location and one can only wonder what their reason was for leaving. I couldn't help wondering whether it might be mainly for adventure and to practise their English. In general I think immigration is being allowed for profit - people are seen as workers and the globalists prefer that we don't stick together and value our own culture. They want to own everything. The more workers there are, the lower the wages are - people can be replaced easily. There's a steady stream of tenants for the huge new apartment blocks going up around Dublin owned ultimately by the globalists. Ireland could be spending €2.5bn on our response to the crisis, increasing the national debt and making Ireland less sovereign by the day. Many more people could be helped if we supported them to stay closer to home. Neighbouring countries could also probably use our euros to build up their local businesses. It's also the richer people who can afford to leave, e.g. they have cars to get to the border etc. We should be demanding that all leaders (including our own) and also the refugees themselves do all they can for peace. Taking sides is not going to help. A local church had a service for peace and the poster advertising it was in the Ukrainian colours!
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Post by Antaine on Mar 31, 2022 17:45:13 GMT
Cato, I agree that Ireland should help genuine refugees - though I would not go so far as to say we are "obliged" to, as this makes it seem like it's something we have to do whether we like it or not (which you might say is the case nowadays), and I think it diminishes the fact that it is not something we have to do, but do anyway out of concern for other people. I also stand by the notion that refugee status is a temporary thing, of varying lengths depending on the severity of the situation. Also, just to clarify, my previous post was not aimed at you (or anyone else on this forum), but was about the general attitude towards the current situation particularly by politicians and other people with power and influence. Whatever anyone might think of me or my politics, I promise I will at least have the decency to address someone directly, and not in a sneaky, snide way.
I am not too concerned that the source is someone associated with the National Party, as I see no reason why that makes them any less legitimate in their intentions than any mainstream outlet that exists today. Depending on your level of scepticism, some might say more legitimate.
I am not criticising you for removing the picture, and you made it known to me why you did so, but just to point out that in said picture one of the people was also an adult male. Which brings me to Maolsheachlann's post.
In regards to evidence, there were the pictures from the Donegal post, alongside pictures from several GAA clubs proudly showing their "Ukrainian refugees". In one picture, from the Galway GAA if I remember (now deleted, but saved by others), a picture containing 21 supposed Ukrainian refugees had at least 8 people who were not racially Ukrainian. Again, even assuming we follow your logic that not racially being x doesn't mean you can't be x, it still doesn't explain why a large number of the refugees are not racially Ukrainian, considering Ukraine is not a diverse country.
In regards to misandry, this is not from the Irish government, but from Zelensky himself. He was the one who said fighting age men must fight, and prevented them from crossing the border - with exceptions, apparently. Or perhaps it's because some men just aren't Ukrainians, hence why they're free to pass, then they come here and suddenly are Ukrainian. With all that said, I suppose reluctance about male refugees isn't helped by migrant men coming over, and then committing gross amounts of heinous crimes such as rape. Women and children are seen as safer to manage.
In regards to Nigerians being here, I think it's as simple that for many - not saying all - it's a case of having an easy life, and being ungrateful as to what's done for them. Nigeria doesn't sound like a good country, but you think that would be all the more reason for some gratitude. Apparently not. When George Floyd died, and BLM were performing their nonsense here, I can't tell you how many "Irish" people with Nigerian flags in their profile were all over Twitter, essentially spitting on this country as a nest of racists. Contrast this with Nigerian people on Twitter who live in Nigeria, and the difference in attitude is night and day. My concern now is that black people - not exclusively, but most prominently - coming to the West are "integrating" in the worst ways possible. That is to say, they are being "integrated" into the woke, self-victimising scam; and they are not victims of it, they know full well what's going on and what they can get away with. Why would you want to live in Nigeria, when you can instead go to a White country, slander the people there, and then be worshipped and glorified for it, on top of receiving special treatment? Also, I don't know the exact numbers, but I have heard the number of Nigerian people on social welfare is supposedly pretty high. Exact details and clarification needed, but if true, it might explain the large number here.
Finally, I have to disagree with your final point. I don't think he was overly rude, considering they are sneaking into this country under the guise of being Ukrainian refugees, meanwhile there are still Irish people being screwed over in this country on housing lists, etc. On the contrary, considering they were caught in the act, I imagine they would feel pretty obliged to act polite - probably not a good idea to draw anymore negative attention to yourself by getting smarmy. If they are somehow allowed into the country - let's be honest, they will be - let's hope they will continue to be so polite, and not join on the anti-White band wagon once they start to feel comfortable.
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Post by Antaine on Mar 31, 2022 17:58:19 GMT
People like the Indian men in the video could be genuine refugees (although possibly originally economic migrants) as there seem to be some Nazi type groups in Ukraine - maybe small in number but supporting the government. It would be great to have TV programmes that reported the reasons different people might be fleeing or leaving Ukraine. I did read a story a couple of weeks back about a Ukrainian family - five lovely girls and another baby on the way. The father was retired from the Ukrainian navy and they had been on holiday in Egypt before deciding to come to Ireland. The girls are all classical trained musicians. They weren't hiding their identity or location and one can only wonder what their reason was for leaving. I couldn't help wondering whether it might be mainly for adventure and to practise their English. In general I think immigration is being allowed for profit - people are seen as workers and the globalists prefer that we don't stick together and value our own culture. They want to own everything. The more workers there are, the lower the wages are - people can be replaced easily. There's a steady stream of tenants for the huge new apartment blocks going up around Dublin owned ultimately by the globalists. Ireland could be spending €2.5bn on our response to the crisis, increasing the national debt and making Ireland less sovereign by the day. Many more people could be helped if we supported them to stay closer to home. Neighbouring countries could also probably use our euros to build up their local businesses. It's also the richer people who can afford to leave, e.g. they have cars to get to the border etc. We should be demanding that all leaders (including our own) and also the refugees themselves do all they can for peace. Taking sides is not going to help. A local church had a service for peace and the poster advertising it was in the Ukrainian colours! Hilary, I have to disagree with your point about the men being refugees. If they were refugees because of the war in Ukraine, they could have went back to where they originally came from. Instead, they came here. That's not being a refugee in my book, that's merely taking advantage of someone else's crises. In regards to immigration being for profit, I agree with this to an extent, but I don't think that's the sole reason. A strong national identity is definitely threatening to a globalist power, so watering down said identity through mass immigration or mass racial guilt is certainly very helpful in that regard. In regards to property being bought out by globalists or big corporations, I don't think most people even know how severe this is. Without going into too much detail for obvious reasons, I do know there are corporations that buy up mass amounts of land, to the extent that they have split themselves into 3 or more different legal entities, which I would assume - though I can't say for sure - is to avoid some sort of limit on the amount of property any one person or organisation can own. One branch of one such unholy trinity type organisation is fittingly called Cerberus. A little on the nose, no?
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Mar 31, 2022 19:35:18 GMT
Cato, I agree that Ireland should help genuine refugees - though I would not go so far as to say we are "obliged" to, as this makes it seem like it's something we have to do whether we like it or not (which you might say is the case nowadays), and I think it diminishes the fact that it is not something we have to do, but do anyway out of concern for other people. I also stand by the notion that refugee status is a temporary thing, of varying lengths depending on the severity of the situation. Also, just to clarify, my previous post was not aimed at you (or anyone else on this forum), but was about the general attitude towards the current situation particularly by politicians and other people with power and influence. Whatever anyone might think of me or my politics, I promise I will at least have the decency to address someone directly, and not in a sneaky, snide way. I am not too concerned that the source is someone associated with the National Party, as I see no reason why that makes them any less legitimate in their intentions than any mainstream outlet that exists today. Depending on your level of scepticism, some might say more legitimate. I am not criticising you for removing the picture, and you made it known to me why you did so, but just to point out that in said picture one of the people was also an adult male. Which brings me to Maolsheachlann's post. In regards to evidence, there were the pictures from the Donegal post, alongside pictures from several GAA clubs proudly showing their "Ukrainian refugees". In one picture, from the Galway GAA if I remember (now deleted, but saved by others), a picture containing 21 supposed Ukrainian refugees had at least 8 people who were not racially Ukrainian. Again, even assuming we follow your logic that not racially being x doesn't mean you can't be x, it still doesn't explain why a large number of the refugees are not racially Ukrainian, considering Ukraine is not a diverse country. In regards to misandry, this is not from the Irish government, but from Zelensky himself. He was the one who said fighting age men must fight, and prevented them from crossing the border - with exceptions, apparently. Or perhaps it's because some men just aren't Ukrainians, hence why they're free to pass, then they come here and suddenly are Ukrainian. With all that said, I suppose reluctance about male refugees isn't helped by migrant men coming over, and then committing gross amounts of heinous crimes such as rape. Women and children are seen as safer to manage. In regards to Nigerians being here, I think it's as simple that for many - not saying all - it's a case of having an easy life, and being ungrateful as to what's done for them. Nigeria doesn't sound like a good country, but you think that would be all the more reason for some gratitude. Apparently not. When George Floyd died, and BLM were performing their nonsense here, I can't tell you how many "Irish" people with Nigerian flags in their profile were all over Twitter, essentially spitting on this country as a nest of racists. Contrast this with Nigerian people on Twitter who live in Nigeria, and the difference in attitude is night and day. My concern now is that black people - not exclusively, but most prominently - coming to the West are "integrating" in the worst ways possible. That is to say, they are being "integrated" into the woke, self-victimising scam; and they are not victims of it, they know full well what's going on and what they can get away with. Why would you want to live in Nigeria, when you can instead go to a White country, slander the people there, and then be worshipped and glorified for it, on top of receiving special treatment? Also, I don't know the exact numbers, but I have heard the number of Nigerian people on social welfare is supposedly pretty high. Exact details and clarification needed, but if true, it might explain the large number here. Finally, I have to disagree with your final point. I don't think he was overly rude, considering they are sneaking into this country under the guise of being Ukrainian refugees, meanwhile there are still Irish people being screwed over in this country on housing lists, etc. On the contrary, considering they were caught in the act, I imagine they would feel pretty obliged to act polite - probably not a good idea to draw anymore negative attention to yourself by getting smarmy. If they are somehow allowed into the country - let's be honest, they will be - let's hope they will continue to be so polite, and not join on the anti-White band wagon once they start to feel comfortable. The men had no obligation to talk to him at all. They could just have ignored him. Obviously they were not fifty, but would you want to be shot by Russian troops? I realize it's the Ukrainians insisting men stay and fight, but I don't blame any men at all who say: "Sod this, I'm out of here." It's not like Zelensky is leading from the front line. As for why they don't go back to their own countries rather than come to Ireland, I imagine things are quite chaotic there right now and they are just happy to get out. It's hard to find statistics for black Ukrainians or non-nationals. I can easily believe that people are sneaking in as Ukrainian refugees, although HOW this happens is hard to imagine. Surely where lives are at stake the humane thing to do is to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and ask questions later. Our failure to admit more Jewish refugees during the Holocaust is still a national shame. I know there are members of ethnic minorities (like a certain Green politician we all know and "love") who are always playing the race card, but I don't beleive for one second that it's most members of ethnic minorities. It's just that the noisy ones are noisy.
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Post by hilary on Mar 31, 2022 22:28:57 GMT
I'm sure it was a lot easier and cheaper for the Indian men to come to Ireland than to go home. You can just imagine the Irish NGO employees rolling out the red carpet for the Indian men as well as for the Ukrainians. Well maybe this all needs to happen. In praise of Nigerians/Africans there are some beautiful families in the Catholic church-lovely dignified women in traditional dress and big families of teenagers I saw recently.
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Post by Séamus on Apr 1, 2022 5:53:07 GMT
Is there more evidence for this than one photograph...etc... we would be better able to accommodate genuine refugees. I'm really not sure what huge numbers of Brazilians and Nigerians are doing here. They're not EU citizens and I don't see why Nigerians fleeing Boko Haram would have to travel all the way to Ireland. ..etc... Makes a lot of sense of course. One cultural point in their favour however- after reading God's Invisible Hand, memoirs of Francis Cardinal Arinze (Ignatius 2006), there would certainly exist among the Catholic population in Nigeria a US-Australia-NZ type link with Ireland due to a huge contrition by Irish religious and priests to education (in particular) during the British colonial era. Patrick was, possibly still is, a national patron.
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Post by Séamus on Apr 1, 2022 6:00:25 GMT
People like the Indian men in the video could be genuine refugees (although possibly originally economic migrants)...etc...! No doubt there'll be not a few non-Hindus wanting to leave India under it's present administration also. I know a priest,who would probably not be labelled as conservative in the usual sense, who found Pope Francis' embrace of Narendra Modi incomprehensible considering his attitude towards local Christians.
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