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Brexit
Jan 18, 2019 10:18:56 GMT
Post by assisi on Jan 18, 2019 10:18:56 GMT
Kudos to the Irish Times for printing this pro-Brexit piece. www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-exposes-elitist-rot-at-heart-of-westminster-1.3761573All the excitement over the vote this week did seem somewhat contrived, since everybody knew what was going to happen. Nigel Farage has described himself as the most pessimistic of Brexiteers at the moment and believes there will be a second referendum. He seems quite confident it will be won. I'm not, although I didn't expect Leave to win the first, either. I think that Farage is normally a safe pair of hands when interpreting public feeling on the EU and Brexit. But on this occasion I wish that he wouldn't talk up the possibility of a second referendum. I think that Remain would win for several reasons. First, recent history (for example second vote on Lisbon treaty in Ireland and similar outcomes in other European countries) show that original EU related votes have been normally overturned in favour of the EU. Second, the media are almost all against Leave and project fear would be upgraded even more than it currently is. Third, a second vote would dispirit Leavers and hand the momentum to remainers. I would say that some Leave voters would just give up and not vote. Leavers should hold their nerve and not even consider a second referendum. A second referendum, if it took place, delivers one resounding message: the establishment don't like the result that the people voted for and wish to overturn a democratic and fair vote. This would be disastrous and could have tremendous repercussions in the near future. |
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Brexit
Jan 18, 2019 10:25:06 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 18, 2019 10:25:06 GMT
Kudos to the Irish Times for printing this pro-Brexit piece. www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-exposes-elitist-rot-at-heart-of-westminster-1.3761573All the excitement over the vote this week did seem somewhat contrived, since everybody knew what was going to happen. Nigel Farage has described himself as the most pessimistic of Brexiteers at the moment and believes there will be a second referendum. He seems quite confident it will be won. I'm not, although I didn't expect Leave to win the first, either. I think that Farage is normally a safe pair of hands when interpreting public feeling on the EU and Brexit. But on this occasion I wish that he wouldn't talk up the possibility of a second referendum. I think that Remain would win for several reasons. First, recent history (for example second vote on Lisbon treaty in Ireland and similar outcomes in other European countries) show that original EU related votes have been normally overturned in favour of the EU. Second, the media are almost all against Leave and project fear would be upgraded even more than it currently is. Third, a second vote would dispirit Leavers and hand the momentum to remainers. I would say that some Leave voters would just give up and not vote. Leavers should hold their nerve and not even consider a second referendum. A second referendum, if it took place, delivers one resounding message: the establishment don't like the result that the people voted for and wish to overturn a democratic and fair vote. This would be disastrous and could have tremendous repercussions in the near future. I am completely against a second referendum and even feel that it will shatter my faith in democracy. I imagine Farage doesn't think talking it down is going to make any difference at this stage, though. Peter Hitchens is recommending Leavers boycott any second referendum. A boycott seems a reasonable idea, however, it would have to be concerted. If some Leave supporters vote and some boycott, that would be a disaster. |
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Brexit
Jan 18, 2019 14:27:35 GMT
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Séamus likes this
Post by cato on Jan 18, 2019 14:27:35 GMT
]I am completely against a second referendum and even feel that it will shatter my faith in democracy. I imagine Farage doesn't think talking it down is going to make any difference at this stage, though.
Peter Hitchens is recommending Leavers boycott any second referendum. A boycott seems a reasonable idea, however, it would have to be concerted. If some Leave supporters vote and some boycott, that would be a disaster.
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A boycott would be totally crazy. Those who don't vote would be put in with the couldn't be arsed or bothered in a final poll. At the end of the day the votes of those who turn up to vote are the ones that count.
I suspect that if the remainers think public opinion has changed they ll push for a Brexit mark ii referendum.
There are two basic problems with this apart from the glaring disregard for democracy.
Why should a losing Leave side accept a second referendum verdict as the remainers never accepted the original result and did all in their power to undermine it over the last two years?
What would make a second vote more definitive? Why not the best of 3? We all know the real objective is to get the "correct" verdict to satisfy the remainers . Their naked desire to get the correct result has caused grave damage to democracy.
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Brexit
Jan 18, 2019 15:07:09 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Jan 18, 2019 15:07:09 GMT
A boycott would be totally crazy. Those who don't vote would be put in with the couldn't be arsed or bothered in a final poll. At the end of the day the votes of those who turn up to vote are the ones that count. I suspect that if the remainers think public opinion has changed they ll push for a Brexit mark ii referendum. There are two basic problems with this apart from the glaring disregard for democracy. Why should a losing Leave side accept a second referendum verdict as the remainers never accepted the original result and did all in their power to undermine it over the last two years? What would make a second vote more definitive? Why not the best of 3? We all know the real objective is to get the "correct" verdict to satisfy the remainers . Their naked desire to get the correct result has caused grave damage to democracy. If there was a big enough boycott, I think it would hard for the Remain side to claim it had a mandate. However, the danger would be that the boycott would be big enough to lose the referendum (which wouldn't take much), but without undermining the result. Anyway, here is Hitchens's article. hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2019/01/peter-hitchens-a-peoples-vote-would-be-a-disaster-but-heres-how-we-can-kill-it-stone-dead.html#comments |
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Brexit
Jan 22, 2019 16:16:14 GMT
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Post by cato on Jan 22, 2019 16:16:14 GMT
If and when we get a hard border in Ireland it will be at the demand of our EU masters.
It will be demanded to protect the wider EU being infiltrated with outside perhaps substandard goods that come into the UK and then the EU via Northern Ireland.
Our gallant government have denied they will ever set up a border again. We will see.
Interestingly the Free State government in the 1920s was the first government on the island of Ireland to set up an economic (hard border) by levying tariffs and setting up customs posts. Guess we have short memories.
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Brexit
Jan 29, 2019 22:11:43 GMT
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Post by cato on Jan 29, 2019 22:11:43 GMT
Our government's line in the sand , the so called Backstop is now the direct focus of the Brexit debate.
Tonight the UK parliament passed a motion seeking to renegiotate it. This must be terrible blow to the Irish policy to date and could ironically bring about the much threatened hard border.
Also but not getting much attention Poland has objected to an open ended Irish Backstop and our 12.5 tax for foreign investors. With friends like these....
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Brexit
Jan 30, 2019 0:07:15 GMT
Post by servantofthechief on Jan 30, 2019 0:07:15 GMT
Rumour has it the Palace has put the kibosh on any talk of a second referendum, and this is why the remainers in parliament are toning down talk. The rumours even go so far as saying the Queen would refuse royal assent if parliament pressed the issue, which given we've already seen one near constitutional crisis in the course of this trial, I am not inclined to disbelieve might actually happen. Also given most of the military is still full of the aristocracy at high levels and a lot of the soldiers not from London are from heavily Leave areas of the UK, I don't think any potential uncomfortableness in the future would go against the Crown if it came to that, not this time. Of course publicly the Queen has simply called for civility and unity, which if you know how the Palace usually handles these things, is always a cover for whatever soft power the crown has flexed on Parliament that day.
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Brexit
Feb 1, 2019 13:32:18 GMT
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Post by cato on Feb 1, 2019 13:32:18 GMT
I sense that whatever happens now Britian is leaving. There may be a delay to organise the departure but it will happen.
A few weeks ago remainers were hopeful of a second vote but as Labour and the Tories say they will carry out a Brexit I can't see how a referendum will get voted through by Parliament.
I think a hard border in Ireland is very likely. The Europeans are insisting on protecting the single market. The international border between the UK and the EU will be our land frontier with the 6 counties. If we insist as we are loudly doing there can be no border on the island then the EU border will be moved back to the continental mainland which surely will hit us too with delays into and out of Ireland?
People seem to overlook the fact we are in a dilemma in that we have strong links with both the UK and the EU. Traditionally we linked our membership of the EEC with the UK.There was never a question of us joining on our own or not joining when they did. When they announced their departure we had zero debate on leaving too. I don't think we should leave but there are consequences to staying and we haven't publically weighed them up. Implicitly we chose to break our economic bonds with the UK in favour of our European bonds.
Some commentators are writing lazy silly articles recently saying we didn't create the mess so why should we try to help solve it? One reason might be that whatever the genesis of the crisis we above all others will have to live with the practical aftermath. Self righteous huffing is not an option.
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Brexit
Feb 18, 2019 22:05:40 GMT
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Séamus likes this
Post by cato on Feb 18, 2019 22:05:40 GMT
There is a current sinister consensus that Brexit and a so called hard border will lead to a resumption of the IRA terror war in the Irish media.
The idea the recent conflict was started by customs posts (originally put up by the Irish Free state) is simply mischevious. Those who might resort to terrorism fundamentally object to any British presence symbolic or real in Ireland. To follow this logic fully all aspects of Britishness need to go to stop giving neo IRA thugs an excuse to start bombing people. Its a nasty low passive agressive argument used to frighten people further.
On a recent Clare Bryne show on RTE the host read out a list of people murdered by the IRA implying this was now a distinct possibility once again.
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Brexit
Feb 18, 2019 23:47:55 GMT
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Post by Séamus on Feb 18, 2019 23:47:55 GMT
There is a current sinister consensus that Brexit and a so called hard border will lead to a resumption of the IRA terror war in the Irish media. The idea the recent conflict was started by customs posts (originally put up by the Irish Free state) is simply mischevious. Those who might resort to terrorism fundamentally object to any British presence symbolic or real in Ireland. To follow this logic fully all aspects of Britishness need to go to stop giving neo IRA thugs an excuse to start bombing people. Its a nasty low passive agressive argument used to frighten people further. On a recent Clare Bryne show on RTE the host read out a list of people murdered by the IRA implying this was now a distinct possibility once again. Just going into the practicality of it all, I'd be interested in the thoughts of the members from Northern Ireland about the border business. I can remember, when quite young, there must have been a hard-border, as they call it now, my mother went shopping in Belfast once with her sisters. They seemed to think there was a lot of clothing and jewelry bargains, but my mother was a always quite savvy and didn't feel there was much there that wasn't cheaper in Dublin. When their bags were checked going back she had a bag of simple bathroom toiletries,the only thing she saw worth the price. Luckily the patrol weren't suspicious of this. |
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Post by assisi on Feb 19, 2019 17:51:44 GMT
There is a current sinister consensus that Brexit and a so called hard border will lead to a resumption of the IRA terror war in the Irish media. The idea the recent conflict was started by customs posts (originally put up by the Irish Free state) is simply mischevious. Those who might resort to terrorism fundamentally object to any British presence symbolic or real in Ireland. To follow this logic fully all aspects of Britishness need to go to stop giving neo IRA thugs an excuse to start bombing people. Its a nasty low passive agressive argument used to frighten people further. On a recent Clare Bryne show on RTE the host read out a list of people murdered by the IRA implying this was now a distinct possibility once again. Dissident republicans, or anyone else, don't need Brexit or checkpoints to start up violence again. There are a thousand or so targets they could bomb in the North if they wanted. In fact a bomb exploded outside Derry's court recently and the dissidents specifically denied Brexit had anything to do with it. This is project fear written big time. It is emotional blackmail, stating that a hard earned peace process is being put at risk by Brexit. When push comes to shove, it is the British who are adamant that a hard border need not be established, and it's the EU who most recently have said it might be needed on their side. I have no doubts that the EU will use Ireland as a pawn to help them punish the UK as much as possible to keep their EU project on track. The media should be brought to task and accused of inciting violence by their pronouncements. The constant reference to potential Brexit violence could end up being a self fulfilling prophecy as some people with bad intentions could be influenced by the anti-British propaganda. |
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Brexit
Feb 25, 2019 21:06:53 GMT
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Post by cato on Feb 25, 2019 21:06:53 GMT
It appears Labour in the UK are going to abandon their promises to respect the will of the British electorate and unless the Tories agree to a deal that effectively binds the UK to the EU, in everything other than having a say in determining policy, they will demand a so called "People's vote".
I like that sneaky arrogant expression but not in the way its promoters intended. People's vote as in all those glorious People's Democratic Republics that once stained the maps of much of the globe. They dodn't give a hoot about their people or democracy.
Corbyn is a deeply unpleasant , fanatical anti western marxist. He is also deeply anti the EU but must believe this U turn will hasten the day he will enter 10 Downing St . Hopefully this new low in political cynicism will backfire.
Meanwhile on state propaganda service RTE tonight children from an all Ireland Orchestra were encouraged to opine on the post Brexit war which will inevitably engulf the island of Ireland. This brain washing is simply despicable. I wonder what the master minds who run the really real authentic IRA think every time an anti Brexit politician predicts a future blood bath? Any one know what a self fulfilling prophecy looks like?
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Post by Séamus on Feb 27, 2019 8:31:24 GMT
Fredrick Forsyth, EXPRESS columnist, has pointed out in the recent international edition "if you still glaze over the very mention of the words 'Irish backstop', try this for simplicity. Somewhere in France, Germany, Austria or Italy a commercial cargo is loaded into a steel container,sealed and hoisted unto a flatbed truck. The exact nature of the cargo-source, destination and value-are all described on a bill of manifest and given to the driver. He sets off and rolls towards the Swiss frontier. His departure point is inside the EU,Switzerland is not. At the Swiss border does he meet with stationary columns of juggernauts in mile-long queues waiting to cross? Absolutely not. He rolls to the custom post and hands down his paperwork. This is scanned in seconds and it's contents sent in a nanosecond to a central computer miles from the border. The customs officer nods at the driver and he rolls into Switzerland. At his destination the sealed unit is opened, the contents checked and the computer is electronically advised that all is in order... So what are we daily told?...the North/South Irish borders must go back to the methods of the 1950s?...It is a lie. The backstop was deliberately invented in Brussels and by Brussels with the daft collusion of Dublin to wreck any departure settlement" Strong words.
Stronger came as he suggested Varadkar's playing 'the Brussels card' could cause Ireland's bankruptcy before Britain's.
Obviously a very pro-England writer, but perhaps with a point or two
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Brexit
Mar 2, 2019 18:00:41 GMT
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Post by cato on Mar 2, 2019 18:00:41 GMT
The government that has been squealing with outrage over a hard border has no difficulty with a hard marine boundary it would appear.
The Irish Navy arrested 2 Northern Irish Trawlers in Southern waters near the international maritime frontier a few days ago . The captains of the trawlers got a slap on the wrist but it seems to be a sign that the EU is also going to make things difficult over fisheries policies.
The enfringement occured in Gerry Adam's Louth constituency and the fishermen are represented by a northern absentee Sinn Fein TD. The naval patrol ship was a former Royal Navy ship used to patrol the former Imperial territory of Hong Kong. Dublin is now seeking to rule the waves.
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Brexit
Mar 20, 2019 11:05:59 GMT
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Post by cato on Mar 20, 2019 11:05:59 GMT
I sense when the history of Brexit is written future generations will be bewildered at all the twists and turns. We are now less than two weeks away and it appears more confusing than ever.
A few things brought us to this sorry mess.
Mrs May is a hopeless negiotator. She took a direct hands on approach and conceded major issues like a large UK contribution to the EU straight away. She has been unable to appeal to pro Brexit Labour Mps whose support she needs.
Parliament contains a remain majority who either want no Brexit or a soft one. The Tory and Labour parties are divided on this issue. Mrs May has a minority government dependent on DUP support . They don't like her Brexit proposals to date.
The speaker of parliament is blatantly anti-Brexit and has misused his position to undermine the democratic result most recently by quoting a 1604 convention to tell the government he will not allow another vote on May's deal - the only deal that is legally possible at this stage.
Europe has run a ruthless united and hostile campaign against Brexit. They have made no attempt to come half way. They are determined to make departure as painful and humiliating as possible. This policy is designed to deter other possible departures. It is strange that the nice shiny EU that prides itself as preventing war and on promoting human rights is behaving like a group of mafia dons threatening and bullying.
Despite being shafted by the EU during the last financial crisis and now lumbered with a colossal 200 billion Euro debt the Irish are the most pro European nation in the EU according to Euro polls.
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