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Post by cato on Aug 30, 2019 10:20:17 GMT
The new British government seems determined to push for a departure by October 31st from the EU. Events in recent weeks in the UK resemble a roller coaster. Each day brings a new and fresh twist.
Tory remainers are debating how far they are willing to defy their own party manifesto to deliver Brexit. Some seem willing to elect the most extreme Marxist ever to lead the Labour party so fanatical is their desire to remain in the EU.
Currently the remainers attempt to form a rival government were twarted by Boris Johnson's decision to prorogue parliament by 6 days. This has been hysterically denounced as a coup. Remainers are calling for passive resistance and militant street protests.
Queen Elizabeth on the advice of the government agreed to reducing the time parliament sits. Now remainers are appealing that decision in the courts. I would be most surprised if the courts contradict the Monarch as advised by her privy council.
Remainers have spent the last 3 years huffing and refusing to accept the referendum. They have used every means to stop it. The EU has hoped this campaign will succeed. The Irish government is hoping this challenge to democracy will succeed. If it fails we will be left in a very weak embarrassing situation. Had we attempted to make the best of a bad situation and get a constructive solution perhaps we wouldn't be in this stalemate.
Wearing the green jersey usually ends in tears in recent Irish politics.
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Brexit
Aug 30, 2019 12:16:12 GMT
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Post by cato on Aug 30, 2019 12:16:12 GMT
A recent editorial in the Financial Times (the journal of British capitalism and global finance) advocates Tories backing a short term Corbyn led government "to preserve democracy". This bizarre union of the super rich and the hard left shows yet again how determined and/or desperate the remainers are in their desire to overturn the 2016 referendum.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Aug 30, 2019 12:48:39 GMT
A recent editorial in the Financial Times (the journal of British capitalism and global finance) advocates Tories backing a short term Corbyn led government "to preserve democracy". This bizarre union of the super rich and the hard left shows yet again how determined and/or desperate the remainers are in their desire to overturn the 2016 referendum. Let's not be rash about this. Who but the EU is going to protect us against the perils of chlorinated chicken?
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Post by Séamus on Aug 31, 2019 8:24:24 GMT
A recent editorial in the Financial Times (the journal of British capitalism and global finance) advocates Tories backing a short term Corbyn led government "to preserve democracy". This bizarre union of the super rich and the hard left shows yet again how determined and/or desperate the remainers are in their desire to overturn the 2016 referendum. Let's not be rash about this. Who but the EU is going to protect us against the perils of chlorinated chicken? The Morrison government is talking about a free trade agreement with the EU (I'd always assumed Australia traded easily enough with Europe anyway) which apparently involves imposing certain EU regulations on the country,such as forbidding Australian companies from labelling their products as 'feta cheese','Greek yoghurt' etc. Price of competing in Eurovision I suppose,not even ALDI obeys that at the moment. ( not sure what Brussels is like on toilet/gender politics- mr.Scott was vocally disapproving this week when he discovered that restrooms in his own offices bore signs with a "the prime minster and cabinet encourages gender fluid toilets,please feel free to use that which you feel..." disclaimer. Would have been polite to have asked him first. And it's a bit of a mouthful too,to politely excuse one's self- instead of simply the 'gents' or 'ladies' "I'm off to the gender relevant room that I'm identifying with right now ")
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Post by cato on Aug 31, 2019 11:44:44 GMT
Let's not be rash about this. Who but the EU is going to protect us against the perils of chlorinated chicken? The Morrison government is talking about a free trade agreement with the EU (I'd always assumed Australia traded easily enough with Europe anyway) which apparently involves imposing certain EU regulations on the country,such as forbidding Australian companies from labelling their products as 'feta cheese','Greek yoghurt' etc. Price of competing in Eurovision I suppose,not even ALDI obeys that at the moment. ( not sure what Brussels is like on toilet/gender politics- mr.Scott was vocally disapproving this week when he discovered that restrooms in his own offices bore signs with a "the prime minster and cabinet encourages gender fluid toilets,please feel free to use that which you feel..." disclaimer. Would have been polite to have asked him first. And it's a bit of a mouthful too,to politely excuse one's self- instead of simply the 'gents' or 'ladies' "I'm off to the gender relevant room that I'm identifying with right now ") This made me laugh Seamus. Thanks.
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Post by cato on Sept 6, 2019 12:17:10 GMT
Political junkies are having a roller coaster of a time following parliamentary business in the mother of parliaments in recent days.
Parliament had taken away the right of the Prime minister to determine the order of business and has rammed through emergency laws in 3 days preventing a so called no deal crash out on October 31st. This is from the people objecting to a parliamentary "coup" by Johnson last week.
All possible means are being used to prevent Brexit. There are 3 attempts by (rich) critics of the government to take the government to court and overturn its recent decision to prorogue parliament.
Boris has lost his parliamentary majority and has made this worse by expelling over 20 of his mps who voted with the opposition to defeat him. His own brother has resigned as a minister and an mp. The conservative party is now becoming more and more a Brexit party. The loyal opposition will not allow a general election despite calling for one for ages as they are determined to prevent Boris leaving the EU by Halloween.
Every side appear to be reduced to seeking a magical way out of the stalemate.It has even been suggested the government will call an election by voting no confidence in itself. There is an intriguing option; every EU member must appoint an EU commissioner. The penalty if you don't is automatic expulsion from the Union! Nothing is too bizarre to be ruled out at this stage.
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Post by servantofthechief on Sept 6, 2019 15:10:32 GMT
Tory party traitors have finally shown their true colours, if nothing else in the eyes of the electorate, whatever Boris faults, he genuinely seemed, unlike May, to want Brexit to happen and has revealed everyone else to be the traitors they are, (I dont care if that language sounds hyperbolic to some, at this stage what else can they be?), Boris did the right thing by kicking them out of the party. The fact that Corbyn has been calling for a general election for literals years now, and the second Boris starts calling for one, he backs down, shows him for the phony he was and how that was all just agit-talk. They know they are not garaunteed to win if it goes to General Election, Boris might even go for a three way 'Brexit Alliance' between the DUP, Tories and Brexit party if he needs to, all he'd need to do is just cede those twenty or so seats of the traitors to the Tories to Farage's party and add whatever extra seats the ories and Farage get, and so the parliament blocked it, but Boris has one more trick up his sleeve which Parliament cannot block.
He's lost his majority, so all he has to do is humbly approach the Queen, ask her to dissolve parliament, and call a general election. And there is nothing they can do to stop that short of somehow, taking away the Queen's power to do so by vote.
Which is effectively a constitutional revolution and after all I've seen so far, I honestly would not put it past them to do so, the Queen is well within her rights to have her guards march into parliament and lift the scepter of royal authority. It would be a constitutional crisis (How dare the Queen use her legal authority to do anything contrary to what parliament wishes?) but what has it been, two constitutional crises so far? Whats a third? If they somehow go beyond this in frustrating or attacking the Queen over this I have absolutely no idea what we're going to do from here.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 19:18:43 GMT
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Post by cato on Sept 6, 2019 19:18:43 GMT
I suppose we need to confuse matters further by remembering the Fixed Parliament Act brought in by Nick Clegg as part of the Tory/SDP government. A prime minister has his hands tied to an election every five years or a two thirds majority in parliament in favour.
As for troops in parliament I think Charles 1st tried that ploy. Rather unsuccessfully I recall.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 19:22:25 GMT
Post by servantofthechief on Sept 6, 2019 19:22:25 GMT
I suppose we need to confuse matters further by remembering the Fixed Parliament Act brought in by Nick Clegg as part of the Tory/SDP government. A prime minister has his hands tied to an election every five years or a two thirds majority in parliament in favour. As for troops in parliament I think Charles 1st tried that ploy. Rather unsuccessfully I recall. The alternative is letting Parliament literally overthrow the system this time. I don't think the Queen would do it, but from a strategic point, I would take my chances with the army these days telling the Parliament 'No' when they ordered the royal family to be locked away until Parliament finishes its business.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 19:56:14 GMT
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Post by cato on Sept 6, 2019 19:56:14 GMT
One huge elephant in the room is the absolute arrogance of the losers in 2016 who believe they can use every tactic fair or foul to overturn Brexit and expect those who originally voted to leave will simply give up and all will revert to the status quo prior to the referendum. They also squeal in fake outrage when anyone faces them down by labelling anyone who dares contradict them as Nazis/racists/haters.
Their destructive disruptive vindictive campaign has deepened divisions and has turned this referendum result into a profound crisis in one of the oldest and most stable democracies. The EU has chosen to treat the British negiotaters with absolute scorn as they believe , with good reason, their British supporters will wreck Brexit on their behalf anyway.
It is interesting to recall it was sir Nick Clegg the Social Democrat leader who originally proposed this referendum to settle the issue once and for all. His party in 2019 has said it will not accept Brexit even if the people voted for it again. Liberal democrats. Indeed.
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Post by cato on Sept 9, 2019 12:13:58 GMT
I rarely quote , at least with any approval, our beloved Taoiseach but he was right when he recently said the BBC would have made a lot of money recently if parliamentary coverage was pay per view. There is even speculation the prime minister may be sent to jail if he refuses to carry out the new law requesting another extension to January 31 2020.
The Tory party looks like splitting into a pro Brexit nationalist majority and a pro EU posh version of the Liberal Democrats. Some lament the end of the broad Tory Church. Others point out most broad churches agree on little and are haemorraging members.
The head of the real Anglican broad church Justin Welby has recently (and surprisingly) told Remainers to stop whinging "We may not like it but that's democracy... do something to unite the country ".He also insisted a second vote was no solution. I cannot imagine any Irish catholic bishop ever offering an opinion like this on a matter of public interest.
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 10:39:07 GMT
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Post by cato on Sept 24, 2019 10:39:07 GMT
The UK supreme court unanimously declared the proroguing of parliament to be illegal.Naturally judges have no biases nor do they ever overstep the mark.
This verdict is part of an unwelcome development where the law is involved when one side does not get its way in parliament. Those who brought this case have been involved several times already in using all means possible to undermine the 2016 referendum result. Another twist in the Brexit saga.
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 11:51:17 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 24, 2019 11:51:17 GMT
In all honesty I have mixed feelings about this.
Much as I ardently desire Brexit to happen, the separation of powers is a precious part of democracy and a court overruling a government, when within its competence, seems entirely legitimate. Boris Johnson's action seemed like an extraordinary departure (I may be wrong) and I'm not sure that's good for a political system.
It's true that the MPs in Westminster are doing everything they can to frustrate the will of the people, but that seems an inherent danger to a representative democracy. Ultimately nobody forced the British people to vote for their representatives.
I have only skimmed the judgement so I may be mistaken.
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Post by servantofthechief on Sept 24, 2019 18:47:05 GMT
I take quite the opposite opinion, this action is making an absolute farce of British Democracy. The Supreme Court's decision is incredibly surprising, because there was nothing in legal precedent that would have condemned Boris Johnson's action to prorogue parliament, which was in his legal powers to do. But lets assume, for the sake of argument, the Supreme Court is in the right, given that Boris' has accepted the ruling while admitting disagreeing with it, arguing over it at this point will be moot, we're still left with yet another constitutional crises.
For one thing Boris' government no longer holds a majority, under law and precedent, he should call for a general election, and to Boris' credit he wants to. But the opposition parties won't allow it.
Said opposition parties, especially Labour, have been calling for a general election for years now, but now that we have a Tory Prime Minister who is not so wishy washy on Brexit, Corbyn suddenly doesn't want a general election. More to the point, Labour just recently held a convention where the majority decided they would not decide to call one way or another on the Brexit position, until they were in power, which is the most condescending piece of opportunistic political trash I've seen in recent British political history, and proves if nothing, that Labour is NOT in touch with the working class' feelings on the matter, otherwise they would have called for no Brexit if they were confident their traditional voting bloc wanted no Brexit.
At best, we're looking at a second referendum, and we all know how that song and dance goes, but given how skittish they are at a general election, they're unlikely to call for a second referendum either.
Mores to the point and back to the issue of government here's the situation: The Tory coalition no longer holds majority because tory traitors crossed the aisle and were kicked out, so we have no government in the UK, the PM wants to call a General Election but this effort is blocked. Parliament has managed to get the proroguing order revoked by the Supreme Court and has taken back control of House Proceedings from the Government... which no longer exists, so Parliament no longer has authority to actually, you know, govern. But they still won't call a general election to resolve the issue.
And so we're back in the same position the opposition was accusing Boris of: Illegally trying to decide Brexit without legal authority, only this time its the House trying to force through an Extension/Deal Brexit with no deal even negotiated, with no legal authority or force to do so because we're now in a stage where an election should be called but is being blocked.
Effectively we now have a Zombie Government.
Do not fool yourself Maol, British democracy has not been protected or saved by this turn of events, its been dead a long time now this farce is just tearing off the pretty face mask from its shambling corpse.
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Brexit
Sept 24, 2019 19:25:25 GMT
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Post by cato on Sept 24, 2019 19:25:25 GMT
In all honesty I have mixed feelings about this. Much as I ardently desire Brexit to happen, the separation of powers is a precious part of democracy and a court overruling a government, when within its competence, seems entirely legitimate. Boris Johnson's action seemed like an extraordinary departure (I may be wrong) and I'm not sure that's good for a political system. It's true that the MPs in Westminster are doing everything they can to frustrate the will of the people, but that seems an inherent danger to a representative democracy. Ultimately nobody forced the British people to vote for their representatives. I have only skimmed the judgement so I may be mistaken. I had mixed views about suspending parliament too. If you are going to try to deprive the opposition of air time why not prorogue until after the EU departure date? If you are going to be ruthless then you need to be ruthless. Still I don't think turning up the parliamentary temperature is wise or prudent. Johnson also seems to have underestimated his opponents in parliament - a very serious error. They did all they could to stop him and in the short term they succeeded and he has lost.
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