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Post by cato on Sept 25, 2019 9:38:11 GMT
A wider and more general point is that the unwritten British constitution relies heavily on precedence , convention and gentlemanliness. All these factors have been abandoned in the anti Brexit counter revolution which has successfully delayed the referendum up until now.
When a minority government responds to provocation and delay by abandoning parliamentary convention then that constitution is put under severe stress. I don't believe it is now broken but once a politics of anger begins its hard to hard to predict reactions and eventual outcomes.
Similarly when the UK anti Brexit MPS, who form a majority are able to delay Brexit successfully you can see why the EU has no need to negotiate a fair deal with the UK or indeed treat it with any respect. The Remain alliance is hoping and planning to derail the process in parliament. Still only a fool would predict the eventual outcome at this stage.
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2019 10:01:27 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 25, 2019 10:01:27 GMT
A wider and more general point is that the unwritten British constitution relies heavily on precedence , convention and gentlemanliness. All these factors have been abandoned in the anti Brexit counter revolution which has successfully delayed the referendum up until now. When a minority government responds to provocation and delay by abandoning parliamentary convention then that constitution is put under severe stress. I don't believe it is now broken but once a politics of anger begins its hard to hard to predict reactions and eventual outcomes. Similarly when the UK anti Brexit MPS, who form a majority are able to delay Brexit successfully you can see why the EU has no need to negotiate a fair deal with the UK or indeed treat it with any respect. The Remain alliance is hoping and planning to derail the process in parliament. Still only a fool would predict the eventual outcome at this stage. It was the departure from convention which alarmed me, but perhaps servant's analysis is right. I am generally of the view that elected representatives retain their right to autonomous choice and are not mere mouthpieces for their constituents. As Burke said to the people who elected him: "You choose a member indeed; but when you have chosen him, he is not member of Bristol, but he is a member of parliament." However, a general election seems the best answer, and this is being blocked. It is very hard to assess even the rights and wrongs, never mind what will happen.
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2019 13:01:48 GMT
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Post by Stephen on Sept 25, 2019 13:01:48 GMT
A wider and more general point is that the unwritten British constitution relies heavily on precedence , convention and gentlemanliness. All these factors have been abandoned in the anti Brexit counter revolution which has successfully delayed the referendum up until now. When a minority government responds to provocation and delay by abandoning parliamentary convention then that constitution is put under severe stress. I don't believe it is now broken but once a politics of anger begins its hard to hard to predict reactions and eventual outcomes. Similarly when the UK anti Brexit MPS, who form a majority are able to delay Brexit successfully you can see why the EU has no need to negotiate a fair deal with the UK or indeed treat it with any respect. The Remain alliance is hoping and planning to derail the process in parliament. Still only a fool would predict the eventual outcome at this stage. It was the departure from convention which alarmed me, but perhaps servant's analysis is right. I am generally of the view that elected representatives retain their right to autonomous choice and are not mere mouthpieces for their constituents. As Burke said to the people who elected him: "You choose a member indeed; but when you have chosen him, he is not member of Bristol, but he is a member of parliament." However, a general election seems the best answer, and this is being blocked. It is very hard to assess even the rights and wrongs, never mind what will happen. I would have to agree, A general election seems to be the best step forward.
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Post by cato on Sept 25, 2019 20:15:03 GMT
This one went under the radar screen but the Labour party voted yesterday to extend the right to vote in Westminster elections to all foreign nationals resident in the UK. Should they get into government they hope this new addition to the electorate will automatically support EU membership and more foreign immigration and votes for Labour.
The links between the left and globalism have rarely been more self evident.
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Post by servantofthechief on Sept 25, 2019 20:25:06 GMT
This one went under the radar screen but the Labour party voted yesterday to extend the right to vote in Westminster elections to all foreign nationals resident in the UK. Should they get into government they hope this new addition to the electorate will automatically support EU membership and more foreign immigration and votes for Labour. The links between the left and globalism have rarely been more self evident. That's astounding. They are all but trying to coup in a permanently left wing globalist government.
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Brexit
Sept 26, 2019 18:17:03 GMT
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Post by cato on Sept 26, 2019 18:17:03 GMT
Last night's debate in the house of commons was riveting in my opinion. Two weeks ago remainers with a straight face shouted about a coup and denounced a fascist tin pot dictatorship etc (all actual terms used)
Last night I saw 3 or 4 remainers literally get into an emotional rage when the prime minister refused to apologise as they would like. Others were triggered by the term "surrender Bill". They objected to terms like "coups" as inflammatory and putting them in physical danger. It is perfectly acceptable in the UK (and Ireland of course) to brand Brexiteer supporters as racist imperialist facists yet should abuse be returned people adopt the offended victim stance.
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Brexit
Sept 27, 2019 13:47:31 GMT
Post by Maolsheachlann on Sept 27, 2019 13:47:31 GMT
Last night's debate in the house of commons was riveting in my opinion. Two weeks ago remainers with a straight face shouted about a coup and denounced a fascist tin pot dictatorship etc (all actual terms used) Last night I saw 3 or 4 remainers literally get into an emotional rage when the prime minister refused to apologise as they would like. Others were triggered by the term "surrender Bill". They objected to terms like "coups" as inflammatory and putting them in physical danger. It is perfectly acceptable in the UK (and Ireland of course) to brand Brexiteer supporters as racist imperialist facists yet should abuse be returned people adopt the offended victim stance. In a Twitter debate today, I suggested to some lefty that there is far more open derotagory discourse about white people and men than there is against non-white people and women. He claimed never to have encountered any. I find that baffling, when the term "white male" is basically an insult by now. When is it ever used favourably?
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Post by servantofthechief on Sept 27, 2019 15:56:44 GMT
Last night's debate in the house of commons was riveting in my opinion. Two weeks ago remainers with a straight face shouted about a coup and denounced a fascist tin pot dictatorship etc (all actual terms used) Last night I saw 3 or 4 remainers literally get into an emotional rage when the prime minister refused to apologise as they would like. Others were triggered by the term "surrender Bill". They objected to terms like "coups" as inflammatory and putting them in physical danger. It is perfectly acceptable in the UK (and Ireland of course) to brand Brexiteer supporters as racist imperialist facists yet should abuse be returned people adopt the offended victim stance. In a Twitter debate today, I suggested to some lefty that there is far more open derotagory discourse about white people and men than there is against non-white people and women. He claimed never to have encountered any. I find that baffling, when the term "white male" is basically an insult by now. When is it ever used favourably? Cognitive dissonance is a big thing on the left these days, especially as things get more polarized. He has seen derogation of white people, he just doesn't see it in the same light as you do. As far as he is concerned, its just criticizing of an oppressive class, (funny how Cultural marxism conflates races as classes, once you understand that sleight of hand, you can begin to see how they drip fed people into eventually being able to switch narratives on a dime). If only white people can be racist and whiteness is racism, therefore racism is whiteness, therefore all whites are racists and fighting the oppressor can only be just and never wrong, therefore fighting whiteness is always corrct, therefore derogation of whites is not deorgation for only white people can be derogative and only derogative to non-whites, therefore only criticism of non-whites can be derogative, therefore he has not seen any derogation of whites because as far as he is concerned, it doesn't exist in his eyes, and the evidence you place before him is not derogation, it is just ciriticism and he doesn't know what the problem is. If that paragraph read as nonsense to you, congratulations, you are still sane and can passively pick up numerous contradictory intellectual fallacies without even looking for them. But this is the mind twist leftists are echo chambering themselves into over time, encouraged by leftist domination of education and media for decades throughout the west. Its taken a long time to get this many people to believe this much nonsense this fervently, but this is how you induct a cult on a civilizational scale without destroying the previously established religion first. Islam at least has the decency to draw the sword once in a while inbetween lying to your face.
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Brexit
Oct 18, 2019 14:10:53 GMT
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Post by cato on Oct 18, 2019 14:10:53 GMT
Contrary to most predictions; 1) the Irish government dropped the sacrosanct Backstop last week. Barely a peep of protest. 2) The EU did give Johnston a new deal. We were told this was impossible. 3) those people in the UK who said Ireland was the issue they opposed Brexit are still opposed but are worried about "workers rights" 4) Parliament has the final say on the new deal on Saturday. It looks likely they will vote it down again especially as the DUP have said they will oppose the new deal. Still pundits are unwilling to predict the vote outcome other than it will be very close.
The opponents of Brexit are getting desperate. If they lose tomorrow, Brexit occurs with a deal on October 31st.
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Brexit
Oct 19, 2019 13:17:04 GMT
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Post by cato on Oct 19, 2019 13:17:04 GMT
At the risk of looking silly later today, it looks somewhat likely there will be a narrow vote in favour of Brexit in parliament today.
A mere 2 weeks ago this would have been viewed as fantasy.
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Post by assisi on Oct 19, 2019 14:16:18 GMT
At the risk of looking silly later today, it looks somewhat likely there will be a narrow vote in favour of Brexit in parliament today. A mere 2 weeks ago this would have been viewed as fantasy. I tend to just skim through the developments in Brexit as the various manoeuvering over the last few years would try the patience of a saint. There may be a few more twists and turns to come.
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Post by cato on Oct 19, 2019 14:18:08 GMT
I am writing out 1000 times " I must not make predictions on Brexit votes" and having a feed of humble pie after wiping the egg of my face. . By upsetting the DUP who voted against the government a defeat was guaranteed. The saga is being put back to Tuesday evening.
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Post by servantofthechief on Oct 19, 2019 15:07:22 GMT
I am writing out 1000 times " I must not make predictions on Brexit votes" and having a feed of humble pie after wiping the egg of my face. . By upsetting the DUP who voted against the government a defeat was guaranteed. The saga is being put back to Tuesday evening. Don't feel too bad, I've made numerous predictions about the EU not surviving the next twist or turn in the economic downturn and political fiascos that have occured since 2008 and, like you, had to learn to no longer make predictions no matter how sure I am of the outcome. Its like we're in an unending boss battle in a video game where the Boss keeps coming back with a new mode of hell to put you through.
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Post by servantofthechief on Oct 20, 2019 12:11:19 GMT
So looks like Boris is having none of the Remainer's shenanigans and is circumventing their attempts to force his hand through Malicious Compliance and the fact no one said he couldn't send MORE letters. The operative section being this one here: "Late tonight – just before the midnight deadline stipulated by 'wrecker' MPs – a total of three letters were due to be sent from the Government to Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council. The first was the letter demanded by the Benn Act, which asks the EU to delay Brexit beyond the October 31 deadline – but not signed by Boris Johnson – using the exact wording specified in the legislation. The second was a covering letter, written by Sir Tim Barrow, the UK's Permanent Representative in Brussels, which made clear that the first letter was from Parliament, not the Government. And the third was a letter from Mr Johnson, which was also sent to the leaders of the other 27 EU nations, in which he disavowed the first letter by making clear that he does not want any delay to Brexit. In it, the PM said any further hold-up would be 'deeply corrosive', and would 'damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners'. The historic batch of correspondence, which were sent by Sir Tim in both hard copy and electronically, represents the Prime Minister's defiant riposte to the 'rebel alliance' who scuppered his attempt to finally secure Commons support for Brexit today. Mr Johnson is also steeling himself for an instant legal challenge from pro-Remain groups to his three-letter ploy on the grounds that he did not sign the Benn missive. However, No 10 lawyers have pointed out that the Benn Act only orders the PM to 'send' not 'sign' a letter."
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Post by cato on Oct 20, 2019 14:52:16 GMT
So looks like Boris is having none of the Remainer's shenanigans and is circumventing their attempts to force his hand through Malicious Compliance and the fact no one said he couldn't send MORE letters. The operative section being this one here: "Late tonight – just before the midnight deadline stipulated by 'wrecker' MPs – a total of three letters were due to be sent from the Government to Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council. The first was the letter demanded by the Benn Act, which asks the EU to delay Brexit beyond the October 31 deadline – but not signed by Boris Johnson – using the exact wording specified in the legislation. The second was a covering letter, written by Sir Tim Barrow, the UK's Permanent Representative in Brussels, which made clear that the first letter was from Parliament, not the Government. And the third was a letter from Mr Johnson, which was also sent to the leaders of the other 27 EU nations, in which he disavowed the first letter by making clear that he does not want any delay to Brexit. In it, the PM said any further hold-up would be 'deeply corrosive', and would 'damage the interests of the UK and our EU partners'. The historic batch of correspondence, which were sent by Sir Tim in both hard copy and electronically, represents the Prime Minister's defiant riposte to the 'rebel alliance' who scuppered his attempt to finally secure Commons support for Brexit today. Mr Johnson is also steeling himself for an instant legal challenge from pro-Remain groups to his three-letter ploy on the grounds that he did not sign the Benn missive. However, No 10 lawyers have pointed out that the Benn Act only orders the PM to 'send' not 'sign' a letter." Seeing the Benn (Surrender Act) was designed not only to rule out the option of no deal but also to humiliate Johnston he was perfectly justified in adhering to the letter of the law while making his own views clear. No doubt he caused his opponents to choke on their champagne last night which is an added bonus. He obeyed the Benn law but also carried out his promise not to negotiate with the EU for an extension. Those opposed to him are largely also opposed to any Brexit whatsoever. This morning they are complaining the Prime Minister is not adhering to the spirit of the law. Exactly. Just as those engaging in delay tactics are really seeking to nullify the entire referendum result.
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