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Post by cato on Nov 5, 2021 9:55:44 GMT
[/quote]Tell me more about the Anglicans proposal [/quote] It was reverse Cromwellianism I appear to recall. Without the actual massacres. Which was generous.
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 5, 2021 15:01:09 GMT
That was naughty and we will not speak of that subject again. I don't object to whatever terminology you use but the title of the thread is a bit misleading. Clickbait perhaps? Can we talk about monuments? Tell me more about the Anglicans proposal should i do that via private note?
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 8, 2021 23:23:14 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it
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Post by cato on Nov 9, 2021 1:44:24 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it What does that mean in plain language? It sounds pretty threatening or utterly inane.
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 9, 2021 1:54:19 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it What does that mean in plain language? It sounds pretty threatening or utterly inane. it means that if my goals can be acheived peacefully I want that; but to the extent that they cannot, I am willing to use more extreme methods to the extent it is nessecary
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Post by Séamus on Nov 9, 2021 3:19:06 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it What does that mean in plain language? It sounds pretty threatening or utterly inane. To arms!!!!
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2021 9:19:36 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it This was tried already by the Provisional IRA, the INLA, and various other republican terrorist groups. The outcome was thousands of corpses, maiming, devastation, heartbreak, economic stagnation...and a continued British presence on the island. It took the Provos and their supporters thirty years to learn the lesson. Surely we don't have to learn it again.
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Post by cato on Nov 9, 2021 12:28:38 GMT
I am an Irish Nationalist to the core, and for that reason, i want to remove every trace of british presence from this island; and intend to use as little force as practical but as much force as necessary to do it This was tried already by the Provisional IRA, the INLA, and various other republican terrorist groups. The outcome was thousands of corpses, maiming, devastation, heartbreak, economic stagnation...and a continued British presence on the island. It took the Provos and their supporters thirty years to learn the lesson. Surely we don't have to learn it again. The dark savagery of those days is something no sane human being who claims to love Ireland would even joke or jest about. The sheer inhumane barbarism of slaughtering people in the name of some higher unity with them is sickening. Most of us have learned that lesson. This site claims to be a Conservative forum. Conservatives embrace the peaceful constitutional right of the peoples of this island to determine their destiny. Any other option is simply unacceptable.
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 9, 2021 16:36:47 GMT
I am not talking about the IRA specifically, Iam simply refering to things like demolition of monuments to british figures
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2021 17:19:31 GMT
I am not talking about the IRA specifically, Iam simply refering to things like demolition of monuments to british figures I hope you are going to spare Wellington's obelisk in the Phoenix Park!
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 9, 2021 18:00:32 GMT
why would that be? maybee if britian is willing to pay the costs of moving it to somewhere in their own country it's excemption could be negotiated
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2021 18:12:21 GMT
why would that be? maybee if britian is willing to pay the costs of moving it to somewhere in their own country it's excemption could be negotiated Well, it's the tallest obelisk in Europe and I think I heard once that it's the second-tallest in the world, although I can't verify that. The whole business of knocking down monuments is a bit too SJW for my tastes. History is history.
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 9, 2021 18:23:33 GMT
one thing the SJWs happen to be right about by accident is that not all history should be celebrated. there is history of which people are rightly ashamed, how many statues of hitler do you see in germany? no nation has monuments to everything in their history, what makes one generation's selection of what history is worth honoring final? even when monuments are removed, you can usually read more accurate facts about the history in an average basic history book then the monuments provide. monuments do not teach, they glorify; history books do the teaching. no nation could possibly glorify all its history, and none ever will; so there is always an element of choice. besides If any nation has suffered enough under longstanding foreign usurpation and oppresion that it is entitled to erase its history it is ireland; what other nation is still dealing with direct results of an invasion from 800 years ago? britian's treatment of ireland is quite possibly the longest lasting oppresion commited against a whole nation in human history. some of those will be replaced with monuments to the victims of the evils inflicted on Ireland by Britain; that is the history people should know.
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Post by Maolsheachlann on Nov 9, 2021 18:43:09 GMT
one thing the SJWs happen to be right about by accident is that not all history should be celebrated. there is history of which people are rightly ashamed, how many statues of hitler do you see in germany? no nation has monuments to everything in their history, what makes one generation's selection of what history is worth honoring final? even when monuments are removed, you can usually read more accurate facts about the history in an average basic history book then the monuments provide. monuments do not teach, they glorify; history books do the teaching. no nation could possibly glorify all its history, and none ever will; so there is always an element of choice. besides If any nation has suffered enough under longstanding foreign usurpation and oppresion that it is entitled to erase its history it is ireland; what other nation is still dealing with direct results of an invasion from 800 years ago? britian's treatment of ireland is quite possibly the longest lasting oppresion commited against a whole nation in human history. some of those will be replaced with monuments to the victims of the evils inflicted on Ireland by Britain; that is the history people should know. I don't think all history should be celebrated, but I don't think leaving a statue in place ncessarily celebrates its subject. It commemorates it. And if the statue is old enough, it is itself history. The funny thing about Hitler is that there never were very many statues to him, even during the Nazi era. All history is a mix of good and bad. Gaelic Ireland wasn't the most morally upstanding place in the world, what with constant internecine warfare, slavery, and human sacrifice. I firmly believe that, if the roles were reversed, the Irish would have colonized and repressed the English just as enthusiastically. We are all under the weight of original sin. Given that, I say we should just preserve all monuments and accept that history is a complicated business.
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Post by connacht4096 on Nov 9, 2021 19:31:59 GMT
one thing the SJWs happen to be right about by accident is that not all history should be celebrated. there is history of which people are rightly ashamed, how many statues of hitler do you see in germany? no nation has monuments to everything in their history, what makes one generation's selection of what history is worth honoring final? even when monuments are removed, you can usually read more accurate facts about the history in an average basic history book then the monuments provide. monuments do not teach, they glorify; history books do the teaching. no nation could possibly glorify all its history, and none ever will; so there is always an element of choice. besides If any nation has suffered enough under longstanding foreign usurpation and oppresion that it is entitled to erase its history it is ireland; what other nation is still dealing with direct results of an invasion from 800 years ago? britian's treatment of ireland is quite possibly the longest lasting oppresion commited against a whole nation in human history. some of those will be replaced with monuments to the victims of the evils inflicted on Ireland by Britain; that is the history people should know. I don't think all history should be celebrated, but I don't think leaving a statue in place ncessarily celebrates its subject. It commemorates it. And if the statue is old enough, it is itself history. The funny thing about Hitler is that there never were very many statues to him, even during the Nazi era. All history is a mix of good and bad. Gaelic Ireland wasn't the most morally upstanding place in the world, what with constant internecine warfare, slavery, and human sacrifice. I firmly believe that, if the roles were reversed, the Irish would have colonized and repressed the English just as enthusiastically. We are all under the weight of original sin. Given that, I say we should just preserve all monuments and accept that history is a complicated business. commemeration is tricky to distinguish from celebration. and gaelic Ireland was several steps more civilized then anyone else in medevil europe. where else was the death penalty avoided for first offences, where else could you file lawsuits against kings? who wrote down their vernacular language centuries before anyone else in europe bothered to write anything but greek and latin. the importent thing about gaelic ireland was that all the bad things about it were universal in its time and place; but many of the good things were unique to it at that time. also i will note that you dodged the core substance of the question on my example, if there were statues of hitler would you agree germany should take them down?
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